Creating Alternative Rock Song Structure

[NihilistNixon]

So I have hit a point where I am ready to try creating full songs, but do not know where to start for building vocal friendly music. Here is my soundcloud to my first song I created: https://soundcloud.com/alicearm. I love it and it came naturally after a very short time of me taking lessons. But since then that has ended. I'm still taking lessons and learning a lot of music theory BUT I just cant create songs right now. Please help!

[AxAxSxS]

I have not listened, I WILL, but I think I already know how to help you.
Lessons,
Music theory.
these are tools.
You are trying to hard to use the tools you have recently learned.
Do not overthink things.
let it happen and develop on it's own. play music that makes you feel good about it and then find space in that matrix for words to add to the sounds and feel.

going to listen now and see.

[NihilistNixon]

I have not listened, I WILL, but I think I already know how to help you.
Lessons,
Music theory.
these are tools.
You are trying to hard to use the tools you have recently learned.
Do not overthink things.
let it happen and develop on it's own. play mausic that makes you feel good about it and then find space in that matrix for words to add to the sounds and feel.

going to listen now and see.

Yeah, I don't plan on EVER quitting lessons. It is just the ideas aren't coming anymore. I cant even get started on a idea. Before I took lessons I had more ideas than now. It's like I have the knowledge, but have lost the..... uh...imagination (?).

[rustywire]

Check out the band Polvo and how their sound/song style has evolved from 1990 to 2014.

There's more than one way to prepare a chicken dinner.

[AxAxSxS]

Yeah, I don't plan on EVER quitting lessons. It is just the ideas aren't coming anymore. I cant even get started on a idea. Before I took lessons I had more ideas than now. It's like I have the knowledge, but have lost the..... uh...imagination (?).

thats what I am trying t get at (in my alcohol befuddled way) By applying what you have learned in a critucal way, you fall into the trap of becoming less intuitive. Think less, feel more.

As an experiment, try playing for an hour without stopping. I bet at first you will be very conscious of what you are doing, thinking about the structure, what should come next, does this make musical sense.... after 15 minutes, I bet your mind will start to wander, what did that person I met yesterday think about what we said, is it cold out, will my friends be at the show tonight. After 30 minutes I bet you come back to what you are playing in a new and consciously different way. This is cool, going with the groove of it, can I add some emphasis to this mistake that sounded rad, and repeat it so that it becomes a mutation of the original riff. let it be natural and an expression of yourself, not what your teachers have told you.

I think lessons and theory are valuable, but can become roadblocks when attempting to follow the directions. It is "theory" after all.

[NihilistNixon]

Yeah, I don't plan on EVER quitting lessons. It is just the ideas aren't coming anymore. I cant even get started on a idea. Before I took lessons I had more ideas than now. It's like I have the knowledge, but have lost the..... uh...imagination (?).

thats what I am trying t get at (in my alcohol befuddled way) By applying what you have learned in a critucal way, you fall into the trap of becoming less intuitive. Think less, feel more.

As an experiment, try playing for an hour without stopping. I bet at first you will be very conscious of what you are doing, thinking about the structure, what should come next, does this make musical sense.... after 15 minutes, I bet your mind will start to wander, what did that person I met yesterday think about what we said, is it cold out, will my friends be at the show tonight. After 30 minutes I bet you come back to what you are playing in a new and consciously different way. This is cool, going with the groove of it, can I add some emphasis to this mistake that sounded rad, and repeat it so that it becomes a mutation of the original riff. let it be natural and an expression of yourself, not what your teachers have told you.

I think lessons and theory are valuable, but can become roadblocks when attempting to follow the directions. It is "theory" after all.

I get what you're saying. I need to focus less on my new found knowledge and just "play". I just get so into the new stuff ive learned and feel I HAVE to use it immediately or I will lose it (which I know isnt true), but I get nervous. You ht it right on the head with the following directions thing. I need to just sorta zoneout I guess and play around. There is much truth in your words.lol

[AxAxSxS]

Hope it helps man Keep it fun and enjoy it

[AxAxSxS]

We write as a band for the most part, when we get done with a new jam and everyone has that "Fuck yeah" expression. we know we are on the right track. go for that.

[MEC]

I think it's easiest to write (and play) using mostly power chords.

Maybe force yourself to use only power chords initially so you aren't trying to apply all the technical stuff you've learned
and you also won't be continuously worried about technique.

Once you have the basic chords and structure of the song down then you can find more interesting ways to play those
same chords that will add more depth and make the basic song you wrote more interesting.

[snipelfritz]

quiet/LOUD/quiet

[oldangelmidnight]

quiet/LOUD/quiet

And, also according to Cobain: "verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo, bad solo"

[Gone Fission]

If just pre-grunge in alternativeness, don't neglect the rap break-down section.

[NihilistNixon]

quiet/LOUD/quiet

Yeah, that is what I'm into. I like the chill, then the loud noisy guitars, then chill, then fancy effect instrumental.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Gonna add onto what others have said about using theory that you know. Don't try to make it complex when starting out. Start out with simple chord or note progressions like doing the two semitones below the root thing (totally sleep deprived atm, so first thing off the top of my head here is "Misfit Love" by QOTSA), the I-V-vi-IV progression, following parts of the pentatonic scale, etc. Look up the chords/tabs for artists that you like too so you can see what they're doing. Your goal shouldn't be originality or complexity, so just focus on coming up with ideas for your songs.

Do like someone else said and just jam and follow what you know too. If something jumps out at you then write down what notes/chords are being played, and record a demo of it in audacity or something. After you do this for a bit, see what works together with an idea that you already have. You know a bit of music theory, so think about what will fit the part that originally jumped out at you based off of that + what you've picked up from what the musicians that you enjoy do. You don't even need to change anything up for the chorus or anything. One of my songs has the verse riff as a pseudo bassline on guitar, and the chorus is just the power chords of the verse notes.

Now as far as writing vocal based music, start off thinking about your abilities as a singer while also keeping what I said above in mind. Now try to make vocal noises to your riffs and fit words to them, or do what I do and think of a topic that you want to write about and come up with words and phrases that fit the topic that you chose. I normally just pick a word or a short phrase and make that the title, and then go from there. Keep the rhythm and chord progressions in mind (either record a demo of the idea and listen to it over and over or play it on your guitar).

Last thing I have to say as far as this goes is don't worry about whether it's good or not. You're not trying to write good songs yet, you're trying to learn how to write them. I can pretty much guarantee that the first songs that you write aren't going to be good, just like how you probably weren't very good with walking the first couple of times you tried. Just come up with the music and lyrics and record it. You'll eventually figure out what works for you and what doesn't and you'll start to be able to write some decent songs. Once you feel comfortable with writing songs and you think that they're good, then you can start working on being interesting and having your own style or whatever. Make sure that you read loads (whether it's a novel or a wikipedia article) or watch movies or whatever it is that you're into. This will help with coming up with ideas for lyrics.