photographers!

[deadbeatriot]

i'm thinking about getting a digital camera in the next few months. i figure we have some very knowledgeable folk around here, so i thought i'd ask you guys and see if anybody could help me out.

i'm currently trying to decide between the canon powershot g11, pentax k-x, and olympus pen e-pl1. any thoughts? suggestions? i'd really appreciate the input.

[McSpunckle]

You have totally different formats of camera here.

Will you carry around an SLR? If so, the K-x. Easily. The bigger sensor is fantastic.

If you're looking into the G11, also look into the S90. Same performance, much smaller. It doesn't have a viewfinder, but the G11s viewfinder isn't exactly the same thing as an SLR viewfinder.

The PEN is a micro 4:3 camera. It has a pretty big sensor, but still smaller (bigger sensors = narrow depth of field and less noise). The lens makes it almost as big, realistically, as a smaller SLR, though.

Look into the K-x first. I've never used one. I know they're spec'd out GREAT, and I likely would have gotten one instead of my Nikon (assuming they feel OK) had they been out at the time... but they have one weird issue... there's no auto focus points in the viewfinder.

That said, at lower ISOs, other than the narrow depth of field from the bigger sensors, all these cameras will take very good photos. The K-x basically destroys everything at higher ISOs, and a real optical viewfinder is really awesome. But, if you wouldn't ever carry it around... what's the point of having it?

[cloudscapes]

A note of micro 4/3's cameras, sensor crop factor is 2x so when a lens says 20mm it's actually really 40mm equivalent on film/full frame cameras. in plain english it means wide-angle shots are harder on these than most compacts and DSLRs.

I'd get the G11, S90 or LX3 (or upcoming LX5). they are the best compacts you can get, seriously. they all have manual controls and good image quality for being compacts.

I would not get a micro 4/3's as your first real camera. they tend to be more expensive than entry level DSLRs and finding lenses for them is expensive (I know, I have the GF1). plus the problem of finding wide-angle lenses. get a good (great) compact or an entry DSLR

avoid the Sony DSLRs. I dont have some irrational dislike of them, they do make cheap cameras that dont compete well with equally priced nikons or canons or whatever.

for DSLRs my usual advice is dont get a kit. get the body only and then a cheap 50mm 1.8 lens. it's not a zoom lens but it's great in low light and pretty versatile if you use your feet. then later zave up for a decent zoom/wide lens

[culturejam]

The entry-level SLRs are about the same price as the high-end point-and-shoot models. Especially if you go with a used camera, which I heartily recommend.

A new G11 is $450. You can get a used Canon or Nikon SLR for that price (easily). And probably with one of the basic "kit" lenses, which aren't the best in the world, but aren't terrible either.

I got a lightly used Canon Rebel XSi recently for $375. The wide-angle zoom Canon kit lens -- which is 18-55 with IS (image stabilization) -- goes for about $75-100 used. Or, as cloudscapes pointed out, you could pickup a used 50mm f/1.8 for about $80. I wouldn't want that to be my only lens, however. I started out with a 50mm f/1.4 as my first lens several years ago, but that was on a film camera where 50mm isn't a telephoto length. If you're going for just one fixed focal length lens on a digital crop body, I'd go for a 35mm. But that's going to cost quite a bit more.

I agree that micro-4/3 probably ins't a great starting point. It's expensive to get in, and the accessories are also expensive and not easy to find (especially used). I do love those little things though! They're like updated bad-ass rangefinders. Hot.

I'd recommend sticking with one of the big-boy manufacturers. The used market is prolific and competitive, there are a ton of aftermarket accessories, and if you change your mind on the gear you'll be able to sell it no problem. And, of course, they are great cameras.

Let us know how things progress.

[futuresailors]

Are you looking for something for snapshots or as a more serious camera?
For something compact, I almost ended up with the Nikon L110.
If you want a DSLR, like I say in any thread where someone's looking for something, check craigslist. And also just try googling the camera and "FS" I found a Canon 40D for $400 on some car forum. Then got a lens for $60 off ebay.
I'd try looking for either a Canon 20D or Nikon D40-70. You can find a whole kit for under $400 and you'll have a camera that'll last a while.

I'm no photographer though. I just like bargain hunting.

[culturejam]

And also just try googling the camera and "FS" I found a Canon 40D for $400 on some car forum.

Wow, that's a hell of a deal. The absolute cheapest 40D I've seed (that was operational) was about $450.

20D would be good, and I just saw a 30D for $350 on the main Canon photography forum.

[futuresailors]

And also just try googling the camera and "FS" I found a Canon 40D for $400 on some car forum.

Wow, that's a hell of a deal. The absolute cheapest 40D I've seed (that was operational) was about $450.

20D would be good, and I just saw a 30D for $350 on the main Canon photography forum.

I missed a 20D with a battery grip for $200 on ebay when I was looking. Keep an eye out deadbeat, you can get some steals if you're patient.

[gururyan]

Once you get your camera, learn to use it. That is what will set you apart from the sea of point-n-shooters that use Photoshop filters to the extreme.

[McSpunckle]

And fuck the rule of thirds.

[culturejam]

And fuck the rule of thirds.

Haha. I actually like it sometimes. It's not *always* the best way to compose, but having every subject dead center of every shot gets old in a hurry.

[McSpunckle]

I agree. it's just that if you focus too hard on composition as a rule, your photos will come out boring. I've gone back to the way I did it when I was 10... "What do I want in this picture?... oh hey! This road could come out of this corner of the frame! Neat!"

Another point about real SLRs (not micro 4/3) is the aspect ratio. Smaller cameras and 4/3 cameras have a 4:3 aspect ratio, which is the same as a VGA TV and non-widescreen computer monitor, but real APS-C or Full Frame SLRs have a 3:2 aspect ration, which is much wider. I just think it looks nicer, generally.

With you you have to crop for an 8x10, and the other you have to crop for a 4x6... who the fuck made the two standard sizes different aspect ratios?

[deadbeatriot]

thanks for the input, guys.

and just to be clear, i'm new to digital photography, but my dad's a professional art photographer (or as professional as art ever gets, i suppose), so i'm no stranger to photo-speak

if i don't find something sweet used, i think i'll jump on the k-x. i really like being able to shoot video.

[culturejam]

if i don't find something sweet used, i think i'll jump on the k-x. i really like being able to shoot video.

Most of the consumer-level dSLR models shoot video these days. So don't think you have to limit yourself to one particular brand or model.

[madmax1012]

hate to bring up an old thread, but i want a new camera, and advice from IlF's is always great. basically i just took a black and white photography class, non digital. i've been using a 1978 Minolta XG-1, and i love it for what it does. but i recently want to branch out into the digital world, not just photography, but filming as well. any camera's i should be looking in to? i don't wanna spend too much, but i wouldn't mind paying for a quality camera if necessary. it's one of those hobbies i've always wanted to pursue but never had the chance, so i figured now was a good time i guess. any advice would be great

[gururyan]

any advice would be great

Don't buy cheap glass.