I'm not sure what it's like precisely in certain areas of America, but as a reference, Ireland has a lot of rural areas as well, and a small minority of the kids that finish high school at 18, if they can afford one (insurance can cost $3000 a year for an 18 year-old with either a new license or provisional license), do drive to school in their own car. In a 300 head school, one or two would have a car for a few months. But all them would have regular drinks. When I was at school I knew lads who would leave school for two hours and walk to a 'local' pub and get plastered, then come back and finish the school day. The patrons in the pubs couldn't care less who was drinking.D.o.S. wrote:The Car vs booze thing is really complicated--mostly because large parts of the country are so rural and removed that you essentially need access to a vehicle in a way that you don't in an urban area. But there's really no good reason to wait until you're 21 to start drinking, aside from the fact that it's against the law. Fuck the police, anarchy, crash mom's car into a ditch. Drink in class until you puke on your high school principal.
Right?
For the most part we rely on our parents (many of our mothers and sometimes fathers are stay at home parents) or public bus services to make the 5-10 miles to school. A few friends drove tractors around, but most of us just had to deal with it. We either cycled, hitched, walked, or pressured our parents into taking time out of their day to take us to our mates house or to football practise. Of course, I don't live in a major city. I think moose lives in Dublin or a surrounding county so probably had different experiences. But vehicle tax over here is so expensive that most young people, even college students, just can't even come close to affording their own transportation.
Although I agree with this, some kids never stop. If you start them on booze early then it may become a habit they can't break. Some are still learning and absorbing their surroundings, and witnessing and taking part in bad shit can remain with you; it can make you feel like it's normal. But still, the difference between 16 and 18 is defined mostly by the laws that surround that special day you turn 18. It's not that you're any wiser or more experienced—though I imagine some are—you just feel different because society now allows you to drink, drive, be paid full wages, get married, get divorced, have sex with others over 18, etc.Corey Y wrote:I think I probably knew (sorta, kinda) 4 or 5 people who got in drunk driving accidents before they graduated high school. No DUI, but it probably would have been a sure thing if they had lived. The last car accident my wife got into was a 17 year old running into her at high speed at a stop light, driving his dad's lifted truck, drunk something like twice over the limit or so. The last time before that it was a 16 year old girl driving her mom's giant SUV and talking on her cellphone, ramming into her from behind at high speed while at a stop sign. So yeah, it seems kind of ridiculous that kids can drive at 15/16, but alcohol is illegal until 21. Teenagers in the US drink now, everyone knows that, it's one of those "open secrets" in society. I'd rather let 16 year olds drink in bars and get the novelty of it out of their system (a few terrible hangovers and embarrassing situations will probably tone down the binge drinking a bit) and make it illegal for them to drive until they can function like a semi rational person. This is coming from someone who doesn't drink too. I can't see either of those ideas getting any traction in the US though.AxAxSxS wrote:seriously, the drive before drink thing here is so stupid. I absolutely think it should be the other way around. As it is now it just makes for problems. Also, you can serve in the military and deploy at 18, but you can't have a beer till 21? Stupid. I fully believe that folks should have had their break in period with alcohol before they have ready access to a car. I'm sure most of the US folks here have at least heard of someone who crashed or got a DUI on their 21'st birthday.
That's tough to see. Addiction evokes desperation.humancertainty wrote:I did. I was in the band twice. To the best of my knowledge, that all happened after I left, although my role in the band was always more akin to a session musician so if he was doing that at the time I probably would not have known. Blake has been a junkie since right around when we recorded the Addicts album. As is the case with junkies, Blake stole from a lot of people, including friends, family and fans. He also lied to a lot of us.AngryGoldfish wrote: Wah?! I did not know this. I have an album of theirs. It's not my kind of thing personally, but didn't Will used to tour with them as a bassist or something like that?
Supposedly he is clean and trying to make amends although I highly doubt it it true. I haven't had any communication with him in almost a year so I don't really know.
Did you play with Wolves In The Throne Room as well? I have one of their records. Indian is 100% more my thing, though. I absolutely adore Guiltless and am looking forward to buying the new one.
Dublin has good public services as well with the Dart, tram system, buses and normal trains. My city has awful services, though. There basically are none. 
