The Doom Room: ILF Edition

[Kacey Y]

Those fucking "for fans of" stickers just kill me. Especially when describing my music.

I just had a conversation about that kind of thing with a friend about that the other day, because every other review of Mental Waste says we sound like "A more pissed off version of Nails!". I had no idea who that band was or what they sound like, so my buddy sent me a link to them. My reaction: "We sound nothing like this band, but ok"

[Iommic Pope]

Daz we need sound clips dude! Yeeaaaargh!
Can't wait to hear this Franken-bunny-ape-hybrid from the island of dr. Darreau.

Also, can't we be realistic with these "for fans of" descriptors? Like "for fans of kick ass loud dirty guitars?" or, "for fans of lame melodic hardcore"? Or "for fans of Iommi"? Of, "for fans of bands who were fans of Iommi"?

Maybe you need that on the electric heat website Daz, "if you aren't a fan of fuzz, then this pedal is not for you".
Or Nick, "Dunwich, for fans of loud".

Maybe I need a tattoo that reads, "for fans of people who had only coffee for breakfast and are basically posting whatever shit flies into their head ad nauseum".

Considering another coffee.....

[AngryGoldfish]

I can't explain the science behind it, but unless you test each possible cause one at a time you won't really know where it's coming from. A noise gate will definitely help, but some of them can suck your sound (that's their job). Running good ones with just a slight bit of attenuation is something to try. Find a friend who has a good one and ask him if you can borrow it for a couple of days to test it with your rig.

I don't think a noise gate is going to help me, I can easily mute the strings with my hands as needed when the feedback starts building. It's mostly just an issue of getting the sustain to last longer before the feedback creeps in. Better bridge/nut?

Regarding the microphonic pickups, this is quite possibly causing the unwanted feedback, but microphonics are often considered a desirable trait. It's not so in amps, but pickups have a different character to them when they're slightly microphonic. Most vintage guitars that cost $10,000 have microphonic pickups. It's actually considered a good find if you discover a vintage set of pickups that perfectly blend microphonics into the sound. However it does cause feedback.

I'll try a bunch of things later this week, change things up, see what's working what's not. I just want to write songs with longer sustain and i'm limited by my gear... or I'm spoiled that my synth can blast an infinite sustain chord.

Oh, sorry, I didn't understand your first comment. I honestly have no idea how to improve your sustain without inducing feedback. The louder you play the amp the more sustain you'll derive, but you'll also increase the chance of feedback, because that's partially what sustain is. Hmmm... interesting question. Thicker strings? Parker is on point regarding guitars anyway. Although Telecasters can sustain nicely, they don't have the sustain of an aluminium guitar or anything with a neck set through the body.

If anyone cares: Black Sleep of Kali are calling it quits. Denver Black Sky is their last show. I AM BUMMED.

Awwww dude, that sucks!

http://www.relapse.com/indian

Guys guys guys new Indian album January 21st yesssssss

For fan of Massodan

SWEET!! I'm still listening to Guiltless but I need something new to destroy my soul.

. if that doesn't work, perhaps you can find a pickup more suited to your goals. if that doesn't work i would maybe consider borrowing some different guitars from friends to see if that helps before you start dropping a bunch of money into nuts and bridges.
the amp is maybe the least likely culprit. i would start with the guitar and you can't get any improvement there then start looking for other dirt pedals.

So I tried a bunch of things today
Guitar > SVT > Bergantino NV412 = no feeding back, good sustain
Guitar > Dual Showman > Bergantino NV412 = no feeding back, good sustain
Guitar > Orange > Bergantino NV412 = no feeding back, good sustain
Guitar > Dual Showman > Fane 2X12 = no feeding back, good sustain
Guitar > Orange > Fane 2X12 = no feeding back, good sustain
Guitar > Dual Showman > Orange 412 = little feeding back, manageable , good sustain
Guitar > Orange OTR120> Orange 412 = goes to feed back within 4 seconds.
Guitar (tone cut completely) > Orange OTR120 > Orange 412 = Some chords sustain, some chords feedback.

in all cases I'm standing about 8' in front of my cabs. Can't get much further then that anyways.
Orange OTR120> Orange 412 is such a good tone, and it really doesn't sound any good to me when it's not dimed....

Your predicament really confuses. Maybe you should try and find an attenuator to borrow and see if you can keep the amps at maximum volume and gain but attenuate the dB level to something more manageable for home and small shows.

[humancertainty]

Those fucking "for fans of" stickers just kill me. Especially when describing my music.

I just had a conversation about that kind of thing with a friend about that the other day, because every other review of Mental Waste says we sound like "A more pissed off version of Nails!". I had no idea who that band was or what they sound like, so my buddy sent me a link to them. My reaction: "We sound nothing like this band, but ok"

Yeah. I don't know where they get that shit. Then one person says it and everyone else parrots it regardless of how true it is or isn't.

[Kacey Y]

Those fucking "for fans of" stickers just kill me. Especially when describing my music.

I just had a conversation about that kind of thing with a friend about that the other day, because every other review of Mental Waste says we sound like "A more pissed off version of Nails!". I had no idea who that band was or what they sound like, so my buddy sent me a link to them. My reaction: "We sound nothing like this band, but ok"

Yeah. I don't know where they get that shit. Then one person says it and everyone else parrots it regardless of how true it is or isn't.

I guess that must be it, because I can never seem to figure out why certain bands get cited that way (for my own bands or others) as sounding similar or "for fans of" or as a possible influence. I'm not taking offense, but it's still confusing. Some people just have their weird specific touchstone for whatever genre or description..."heavy", "fast", "slow", "angry", "punk", "metal", whatever. Who knows where they get it. I have a friend who does that, where anything fast and punk/hardcore derived "sounds like Negative Approach". Ummm...ok.

[pelliott]

I'm going to start saying stuff like "This band sounds just like Led Zeppelin, if Led Zeppelin played grindcore and sounded nothing like Led Zeppelin"

[assface jackson]

"For dudes with beards and mid-level social anxiety"

[pelliott]

"If you're a fan of Creed, you'll probably hate this band and will be a virgin forever"

[Iommic Pope]

"For dudes with beards and mid-level social anxiety"

How did you know?!

I think it's based in the way humans generally try and break the world down into specific semantic subsets in an effort to negotiate thought and its communication and interpretation via language.
The touchstone descriptor you gave is a good one, because people often do need a marker or point of familiarity (semantically known as signs) in an effort to locate their own experience with what others are describing and then figure out how to proceed from there based on the associations they have with it.
Music is especially tricky because it is abstract, and most people don't have enough musical training/exposure ( or, I would argue the right kind of approach to musical exposure) to negotiate new and unheard material without comparing it to something they may know and like.
Also I would say there is a large amount of social psychology at work with the labels and the idea of creating in-groups at people can identify with, either positively or negatively.

My 2c.

[Kacey Y]

"For dudes with beards and mid-level social anxiety"

This band sounds pretty good.

[Forrrest]

Oh, sorry, I didn't understand your first comment. I honestly have no idea how to improve your sustain without inducing feedback. The louder you play the amp the more sustain you'll derive, but you'll also increase the chance of feedback, because that's partially what sustain is. Hmmm... interesting question. Thicker strings? Parker is on point regarding guitars anyway. Although Telecasters can sustain nicely, they don't have the sustain of an aluminium guitar or anything with a neck set through the body.

Your predicament really confuses. Maybe you should try and find an attenuator to borrow and see if you can keep the amps at maximum volume and gain but attenuate the dB level to something more manageable for home and small shows.

I've got Ernie Ball 2839 (13-72) on my guitar right now. don't think thickness is an issue. (the tele I play is a 27" baritone)
I'm gonna try another baritone later this week. There's just not that many baritone offerings to let me pick from. In my band right now I'm pretty married to Drop A tunings. I've considered an aluminum neck, they're just so expensive.. years back I had an aluminum Kramer - always went out of tune. are the new offerings from EGC much better?

attenuator.
I've never owned one, so I guess it's time I start asking around to try one out.
wait, why am I in the doom room being told to get an attenuator?

[misterstomach]

Oh, sorry, I didn't understand your first comment. I honestly have no idea how to improve your sustain without inducing feedback. The louder you play the amp the more sustain you'll derive, but you'll also increase the chance of feedback, because that's partially what sustain is. Hmmm... interesting question. Thicker strings? Parker is on point regarding guitars anyway. Although Telecasters can sustain nicely, they don't have the sustain of an aluminium guitar or anything with a neck set through the body.

Your predicament really confuses. Maybe you should try and find an attenuator to borrow and see if you can keep the amps at maximum volume and gain but attenuate the dB level to something more manageable for home and small shows.

I've got Ernie Ball 2839 (13-72) on my guitar right now. don't think thickness is an issue. (the tele I play is a 27" baritone)
I'm gonna try another baritone later this week. There's just not that many baritone offerings to let me pick from. In my band right now I'm pretty married to Drop A tunings. I've considered an aluminum neck, they're just so expensive.. years back I had an aluminum Kramer - always went out of tune. are the new offerings from EGC much better?

attenuator.
I've never owned one, so I guess it's time I start asking around to try one out.
wait, why am I in the doom room being told to get an attenuator?

based on your experiments, i'd say i was wrong about the problem. i don't really get how an attenuator is going to help, but i just don't know much about them.

[D.o.S.]

Yeah, an attenuator makes no sense to me either.

I have heard nothing but good things about the Philosopher's Tone, but I really think you should be getting more sustain than 4 seconds with the posted setup.

[skullservant]

It really sounds like you're running something to hot. Whether it is that the amp is cranked too much, or your pickups are of an output that would cause feedback. If it's doing the same thing with multiple guitars I'd look at the amp. You might have to roll back the gain or the master a bit which may solve the problem. If you're cranking the amp there is more chance for you to feedback. Could you possibly run multiple heads to get the same volume but without having to dime them?

[AxAxSxS]

"For fans of raping your ear pussies"