Edward Snowden, NSA, 4th Amendment

[Dark Barn]

To clarify my position, I'm not surprised that our government is spying on us. The news sources that I pay attention to have been suggesting it for a long time now (props for my personal favorites Dan Carlin and the man who broke the story, Glenn Greenwald). What I find disheartening are these polls that show such broad support for government intrusion into our private affairs. Now that the surveillance state is exposed more fully and not the 'crackpot' idea it was portrayed as I expected a little more blow back.

[Ancient Astronaught]

To clarify my position, I'm not surprised that our government is spying on us. The news sources that I pay attention to have been suggesting it for a long time now (props for my personal favorites Dan Carlin and the man who broke the story, Glenn Greenwald). What I find disheartening are these polls that show such broad support for government intrusion into our private affairs. Now that the surveillance state is exposed more fully and not the 'crackpot' idea it was portrayed as I expected a little more blow back.

Selection bias is a statistical bias in which there is an error in choosing the individuals or groups to take part in a scientific study.[1] It is sometimes referred to as the selection effect. The phrase "selection bias" most often refers to the distortion of a statistical analysis, resulting from the method of collecting samples. If the selection bias is not taken into account then certain conclusions drawn may be wrong.

Sorry, somebodies gotta play the conspiracy theorist here.....

[fiddelerselbow]

To clarify my position, I'm not surprised that our government is spying on us. The news sources that I pay attention to have been suggesting it for a long time now (props for my personal favorites Dan Carlin and the man who broke the story, Glenn Greenwald). What I find disheartening are these polls that show such broad support for government intrusion into our private affairs. Now that the surveillance state is exposed more fully and not the 'crackpot' idea it was portrayed as I expected a little more blow back.

What polls are you referring to exactly?

[Dark Barn]

What polls are you referring to exactly?

The Reuters/Ipsos one from Tuesday that keeps getting cited.

[RR Bigman]

shit's been going on since at least the 80s, I'm just ashamed that they feel we don't need to be in the loop " TO PROTECT OUR FREEDUMZ". tack terrorist or anything else related to "brown" people onto anything abhorrent and this country rolls over like a big fat weinerdog to get dem tummy rubz. Luckily for me, the most dangerous thing I've ever looked up on the internet is related to illegal broadcasting, and the fcc is broke as a joke anyway.

[FuzzHugger]

While it's worrisome in some ways (if yeah, Snowden only told me what I already expected to be true)...I have more of a problem with this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... Syria.html

A US soldier faces death penalty for fighting with al Qaeda in Syria--fighting alongside the rebels, against Assad. Fighting alongside the rebels that the US has long supported...despite many of the rebels being affiliated in some way with al-Qaeda; at least 500 are officially al-Qaeda (recently allocated by al-Zawahiri himself). Today, the US decided to (officially) begin arming rebels.

It reminds me of when we first went to Afghanistan, and our soldiers were being shot at with our own US-made rocket launchers and everyone went huh for a second before it was pointed out that WE armed the Taliban back when they were fighting Russia.

Yeah, this guy went to Syria and started hanging out with dudes who were killing people, and he killed people too. Fucked. But he was part of a cause we're supporting, philosophically, tactically, and now militarily. So we accuse him of helping al Qaeda...for a cause the US was supporting, and is now arming. I hate conspiracy bullshit, but this isn't a conspiracy--it's open, confirmed...and, I have a really strong suspicion, stupid. I hate that kind of hypocricy...while I don't get as upset about the government snooping I already knew about, so long as I'm left alone (and I assume, based on my internet activity, I will be).

[sonidero]

Too much not Fuzz in here...

I have seen all data collection since the act of '96...

Everyone carry on and HOLLA!!!

[warwick.hoy]

LOL "Democracy".

We don't live in any democracy. We live in a plutocracy that is disguised as a democracy

[Jwar]

While it's worrisome in some ways (if yeah, Snowden only told me what I already expected to be true)...I have more of a problem with this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... Syria.html

A US soldier faces death penalty for fighting with al Qaeda in Syria--fighting alongside the rebels, against Assad. Fighting alongside the rebels that the US has long supported...despite many of the rebels being affiliated in some way with al-Qaeda; at least 500 are officially al-Qaeda (recently allocated by al-Zawahiri himself). Today, the US decided to (officially) begin arming rebels.

It reminds me of when we first went to Afghanistan, and our soldiers were being shot at with our own US-made rocket launchers and everyone went huh for a second before it was pointed out that WE armed the Taliban back when they were fighting Russia.

Yeah, this guy went to Syria and started hanging out with dudes who were killing people, and he killed people too. Fucked. But he was part of a cause we're supporting, philosophically, tactically, and now militarily. So we accuse him of helping al Qaeda...for a cause the US was supporting, and is now arming. I hate conspiracy bullshit, but this isn't a conspiracy--it's open, confirmed...and, I have a really strong suspicion, stupid. I hate that kind of hypocricy...while I don't get as upset about the government snooping I already knew about, so long as I'm left alone (and I assume, based on my internet activity, I will be).

That is so fucked up. Sometimes I hate this country. Bunch of goddamn hypocrites.

[snipelfritz]

The problem is that its hard to argue for your "private" conversations that are happening over "public" government regulated phone lines, air waves, etc.

It's kind of like the TSA, don't like it, take a train. Amtrak will let you get away with anything.

Don't like wiretapping? Send a letter. In fact, this may all just a conspiracy to force people into using the USPS again. (not that ILF doesn't)

[D.o.S.]

While it's worrisome in some ways (if yeah, Snowden only told me what I already expected to be true)...I have more of a problem with this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... Syria.html

A US soldier faces death penalty for fighting with al Qaeda in Syria--fighting alongside the rebels, against Assad. Fighting alongside the rebels that the US has long supported...despite many of the rebels being affiliated in some way with al-Qaeda; at least 500 are officially al-Qaeda (recently allocated by al-Zawahiri himself). Today, the US decided to (officially) begin arming rebels.

It reminds me of when we first went to Afghanistan, and our soldiers were being shot at with our own US-made rocket launchers and everyone went huh for a second before it was pointed out that WE armed the Taliban back when they were fighting Russia.

Yeah, this guy went to Syria and started hanging out with dudes who were killing people, and he killed people too. Fucked. But he was part of a cause we're supporting, philosophically, tactically, and now militarily. So we accuse him of helping al Qaeda...for a cause the US was supporting, and is now arming. I hate conspiracy bullshit, but this isn't a conspiracy--it's open, confirmed...and, I have a really strong suspicion, stupid. I hate that kind of hypocricy...while I don't get as upset about the government snooping I already knew about, so long as I'm left alone (and I assume, based on my internet activity, I will be).

The groups were also using suicide attackers and car bombs. Not sure if that makes a difference, really, but it's worth pointing out. The United States has decided to approach Syria the same way they did with much of the conflicts in South America through the 70's and 80's, through quantitative support in terms of weapons, aid, etc. Not with soldiers, past or present. They almost have to give the guy the death penalty for his open engagement, cooperation, and adaptation to a group calling itself (and, of course, pretty much every Islamic group with terroristic tendencies cops the Al Qaeda name as a legitimacy builder) Al Qaeda.

Think of it like Col. Kurtz in Apocalypse Now.
"His methods are... unsound."

[warwick.hoy]

How much money does the gubment stand to make by arming Syrian Rebels?

Just food for thought.

[RR Bigman]

The problem is that its hard to argue for your "private" conversations that are happening over "public" government regulated phone lines, air waves, etc.

It's kind of like the TSA, don't like it, take a train. Amtrak will let you get away with anything.

Don't like wiretapping? Send a letter. In fact, this may all just a conspiracy to force people into using the USPS again. (not that ILF doesn't)

send a letter through the public government regulated postal service? Nuget please. I mean no offense or animosity towards you personally but this "if you dont like it you can hit the showers" mentality that certain people take with things like this really rustles my jimmies.

[IEatCats]

Unfortunately it's not very surprising.

Pretty much this. I wish it was a shock, but it just isn't :/

[fiddelerselbow]

While it's worrisome in some ways (if yeah, Snowden only told me what I already expected to be true)...I have more of a problem with this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... Syria.html

A US soldier faces death penalty for fighting with al Qaeda in Syria--fighting alongside the rebels, against Assad. Fighting alongside the rebels that the US has long supported...despite many of the rebels being affiliated in some way with al-Qaeda; at least 500 are officially al-Qaeda (recently allocated by al-Zawahiri himself). Today, the US decided to (officially) begin arming rebels.

It reminds me of when we first went to Afghanistan, and our soldiers were being shot at with our own US-made rocket launchers and everyone went huh for a second before it was pointed out that WE armed the Taliban back when they were fighting Russia.

Yeah, this guy went to Syria and started hanging out with dudes who were killing people, and he killed people too. Fucked. But he was part of a cause we're supporting, philosophically, tactically, and now militarily. So we accuse him of helping al Qaeda...for a cause the US was supporting, and is now arming. I hate conspiracy bullshit, but this isn't a conspiracy--it's open, confirmed...and, I have a really strong suspicion, stupid. I hate that kind of hypocricy...while I don't get as upset about the government snooping I already knew about, so long as I'm left alone (and I assume, based on my internet activity, I will be).

The groups were also using suicide attackers and car bombs. Not sure if that makes a difference, really, but it's worth pointing out. The United States has decided to approach Syria the same way they did with much of the conflicts in South America through the 70's and 80's, through quantitative support in terms of weapons, aid, etc. Not with soldiers, past or present. They almost have to give the guy the death penalty for his open engagement, cooperation, and adaptation to a group calling itself (and, of course, pretty much every Islamic group with terroristic tendencies cops the Al Qaeda name as a legitimacy builder) Al Qaeda.

Think of it like Col. Kurtz in Apocalypse Now.
"His methods are... unsound."

Exactly. Chances are the US will throw their lot in with the most unpopular but most outwardly seeming democratic faction in the region. Most likely the FSA, who've been less than squeaky clean in their methods. Al Qaeda isn't who the quantitative support is aimed at, more likely people like the FSA, with a view to squeezing out any Islamist groups if al-Assad is overthrown.