Prymaxe Vintage sucks, but let's talk about food too! :)

[FuzzHugger]

I dropped Prymaxe four months ago. I believe their practices are bad for small builders, and ultimately bad for the customer (by driving down the value--and resale value--of pedals).

That constant 15% seems like a great deal until you go to resell your pedal. That 15% +/- hit you'd normally take? Well add another 15%, if people know they can always get it for 15% off normal price at Prymaxe.

Then, as a builder, your sales drop at your other dealers.

After fees and free shipping, a 15% off deal can take profit margin down to at least 5%, if not 1-3%...the key to Prymaxe's business model is volume, and they undercut MAP to make enough. Small dealers can't afford that, and customers are all going to Prymaxe for the discount, so other dealers order less and less. I got many emails from customers asking when something would be in stock at Prymaxe because they didn't want to pay MAP. So (in my experience) your pedals only really sell at Prymaxe, and now you're dependent on them...and you have to get used to your pedals being worth 15% less. That nearly put me out of business.

[FuzzHugger]

I know it's great, as a customer, to find a good deal. I'm cool with seasonal sales. But my prices are already super low--because I want people to always get a good deal--and if I wanted my pedals to be 15% cheaper, I'd make MAP 15% lower (but my prices are too low to afford that).

I reminded Prymaxe about MAPs 3 times over an 18 month period...I never got any responses. When their site lists MAP, and an inch above that, advertises a never-ending 15% off, they're violating the MAPs that I've listed in every price sheet and multiple emails.


Summer 2012 was the start of a mini-crash, in my opinion thanks to their practices...I didn't hear from Prymaxe for almost 6 months. And when I did, Cory said his accountants told him he needed 5% extra profit on each pedal. They cut my MAP by 15% for a year and a half, then asked for 5% more--of course they needed 5% more! So I sent my 3rd request then for Prymaxe to honor my MAPs.

Cory emailed back, refusing, and suggesting that other dealers made me complain. So he called other dealers "over-the-hill," "sinking ships," that don't "know how to effectively run a business," and I was told that if I "want to keep on good terms with one of the most cutting edge companies in the business then you have to accept our business plan." I responded, reiterating my request for them to honor the MAPs they agreed on when they purchased my pedals. I also pointed out why he needs 5% extra, and let him know that I'm not one of his employees--that builders are the ones making him money by supplying a product for him to sell. He never responded, and my MAP continued to be slashed.

Since dropping them, my sales have increased. Other dealers who honor MAP agreements (and do seasonal sales) have placed new orders that have more than made up for not selling to Prymaxe, and direct sales have gone up. When customers resell my pedals, there won't be that additional 15% loss...and I'm not put out of business by a greedy retailer who doesn't give a shit about me.

[Casavettes]

Well holy shit...

[DarkAxel]

wow

[Tristan]

Wow, that's shit, I really didn't know that.
As an international customer it's even more attractive to buy from them because the shipping easily saves you another $20,- and they apparently have a handle to get things through customs easily and if that works it saves yet another 19% - 25%.
I'm usually not a big fan of buying blind anyway but as an international customer that's kind of also the deal when you buy from a (US) builder just as it is with Prymaxe.
From what I read in this topic it seems to me that the policy of Prymaxe in effect basically forces small builders to only sell direct, which is really a shame because it in effect also cuts the international dealerships and trades and being able to try stuff overseas without the need of buying before trying.
That said, some prices on some pedals are quite ridiculous (I'm not talking about the builders from here but mostly about the bigger boutique guys) and I wouldn't feel sorry for ordering that stuff from Prymaxe one bit to cut the costs a little.

[FuzzHugger]

Hey, if people like shopping there, have a good experience, great. I'm not asking anyone to change their opinion on them or boycott them. Though I do think they're hurting small builders, I'm not trying to take this thread downhill.

I'm chill. I saw I was getting screwed, they wouldn't comply with my policies, I got out, and now my business is better.

But I wanted to share my experience, from a small builder standpoint...it might save another small builder from going under.

[FuzzHugger]

That said, some prices on some pedals are quite ridiculous (I'm not talking about the builders from here but mostly about the bigger boutique guys) and I wouldn't feel sorry for ordering that stuff from Prymaxe one bit to cut the costs a little.

I understand that...and those guys probably aren't as hurt when Prymaxe demands 5% extra profit and slashes their prices by 15%, because their MAPs are already inflated hundreds of times above their costs. And when I do buy gear made by a gigantic corporation, I go for the discounts.

[hollowhero]

I knew prymaxe was playing the low margin, high volume game, but I didn't realize they were so fucked up toward builders. Their 16% off sales announced right after PGS' 15% ones always rubbed me the wrong way...came off as sleazy to me

[htsamurai]

this is the shit that everyone needs to know

seriously

[Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie

[hatshirt]

this is the shit that everyone needs to know

seriously

this has been a very unexpected and interesting read.

[Jwar]

Well I guess that settles it. With the fact that I've had so much luck with direct sales, and the fact that Prymaxe has not responded to my e-mails, they will no longer be receiving my business. Tom's post just clarified what I already suspected. I can support small builders who care about their customers. When I want to buy a Boss pedal, I'll buy it from Guitar Center. Fuck Prymaxe for not caring about me as a customer (who has spent thousands of dollars with them) and fuck them for not caring about hurting the builders.

[Disarm D'arcy]

Yep, low cost is always hurting the consumer in the end. To supply low cost products, you need a cheap product and a cheap workforce. Once you've already made the product as cheap (and shitty) as it can be, you start asking for more from your workforce. Lower salaries, less security and social benefits. Competition between workers makes wages go downhill, so workers who are also consumers can only afford cheaper stuff, so they buy more discount shit and discounters need lower prices, so they in turn bully their workers, who will only buy cheaper stuff... It's a vicious cycle and it's how you end up with some of the richest countries in the world having an increasing proportion of poors, working poors, amongst their population. The same shit goes around between sellers and supplyers. So, when do we cut the costs and raise everybody's minimum wage to a decent income and give them universal health care, unemployment, education... ? Don't assume I'm a communist or something - yeah I know, I'm French and you all think were all leftist here -, that's exactly what F.D. Roosevelt proposed with his second Bill of Rights. Seriously, if you're curious and not at ease with economy, watch Michael Moore's Capitalism: A Love Story. It's damn good.

Also, glad you could get out of the deal without losing too much, Tom

[Jack Deville]

I know it's great, as a customer, to find a good deal. I'm cool with seasonal sales. But my prices are already super low--because I want people to always get a good deal--and if I wanted my pedals to be 15% cheaper, I'd make MAP 15% lower (but my prices are too low to afford that).

I reminded Prymaxe about MAPs 3 times over an 18 month period...I never got any responses. When their site lists MAP, and an inch above that, advertises a never-ending 15% off, they're violating the MAPs that I've listed in every price sheet and multiple emails.


Summer 2012 was the start of a mini-crash, thanks to their practices...I didn't hear from Prymaxe for almost 6 months. And when I did, Cory said his accountants told him he needed 5% extra profit on each pedal. They cut my MAP by 15% for a year and a half, then asked for 5% more--of course they needed 5% more! So I sent my 3rd request then for Prymaxe to honor my MAPs.

Cory emailed back, refusing, and suggesting that other dealers made me complain. So he called other dealers "over-the-hill," "sinking ships," that don't "know how to effectively run a business," and I was told that if I "want to keep on good terms with one of the most cutting edge companies in the business then you have to accept our business plan." I responded, reiterating my request for them to honor the MAPs they agreed on when they purchased my pedals. I also pointed out why he needs 5% extra, and let him know that I'm not one of his employees--that builders are the ones making him money by supplying a product for him to sell. He never responded, and my MAP continued to be slashed.

Since dropping them, my sales have increased. Other dealers who honor MAP agreements (and do seasonal sales) have placed new orders that have more than made up for not selling to Prymaxe, and direct sales have gone up. When customers resell my pedals, there won't be that additional 15% loss...and I'm not put out of business by a greedy retailer who doesn't give a shit about me.

Funny how economics works, eh?
You see it.
Or maybe you need to get on board with the new economic model and learn how to run an effectively business.
Or maybe the new "model" is juvenile and lacks long-term strategy, or any real strategy for that matter.
I chuckle when I hear the accountants said 5% more was needed. That's funny as hell to me. I guess that means buying zips at $300 and selling 1/8ths at $40 doesn't make re-upping real easy, huh? Who woulda thought. Why accountants need to be consulted on that one is beyond me, but I know a good CPA ain't cheap. Even a lousy bookkeeper is an expense. Hey! Maybe I should work as an accountant?

Sadly, these blatantly obvious concepts are lost on those learning or incapable of understanding the foundation of commerce and capitalism yet still wish to play the game. My loss I guess. I don't work with Prymaxe right now.

[FuzzHugger]

^ That's the thing...it's a short term strategy that doesn't consider increasing value, only decreasing it for the quick, short-term payoff.

My business is tiny compared to Prymaxe, but I had to build it up, starting with almost no money, learning what works and doesn't work for growing a business, thinking long-term--because my business depended on it.
I didn't start with money and an already built-up business. And I think that's part of why Prymaxe is out-of-touch...