needed to be said

[metalmariachi]

http://www.grassrootsy.com/2012/02/22/a ... musicians/

[Psyre]

So true, and yet I've fallen victim to it, like he said, because my band is that desperate to play. Fortunately it has helped up build some relationships with other bands and are now planing on doing our own things with them, hopefully by the end of summer we will have those types of shows well behind us.

[Fuzzy Fred]

last show, we brought 20 people, but because of touring bands and shit playing, we got 20 bucks for a 4 piece band. fuck. that.

[bigchiefbc]

I completely agree with everything he said in that letter, and that's basically the tactic we take when booking gigs for my covers band. We agree on a set fee before the show, regardless of the size of crowd we bring, period. My friends and family are not going to come to every single gig I play. If you own a bar, you should already HAVE a reliable clientele. You shouldn't depend on the band to fill up the barstools. If you are, then your bar is going down anyways. If your bar isn't clearing enough to pay the band a few hundred buck for the night, then close your damn doors now and save yourself the slow slide to bankruptcy.

[Tigerbass]

I completely agree with everything he said in that letter, and that's basically the tactic we take when booking gigs for my covers band. We agree on a set fee before the show, regardless of the size of crowd we bring, period. My friends and family are not going to come to every single gig I play. If you own a bar, you should already HAVE a reliable clientele. You shouldn't depend on the band to fill up the barstools. If you are, then your bar is going down anyways. If your bar isn't clearing enough to pay the band a few hundred buck for the night, then close your damn doors now and save yourself the slow slide to bankruptcy.

+1,000,000!!!

[Deltaphoenix]

Wow, this making the rounds. i just shared it on FB awhile ago.

[tuffteef]

yep the worst

scummy son

[Chankgeez]

While I agree that musicians need to be paid more, I disagree with almost every thing else jazz dude was talkin' about.

[behndy]

why? i thought most of his points, while relying on the What If You're Catering My House analogy, were pretty right on. i've had the same discussion with club owners.

[MSUsousaphone]

Totally agree. Club owners act like we're renting out their building to throw a party. Fuck that shit. We have two pretty sweet venues in Lake Charles.....then everything else and in most of the other cities between NOLA and Houston are just as described in the article.

[Chankgeez]

why? i thought most of his points, while relying on the What If You're Catering My House analogy, were pretty right on. i've had the same discussion with club owners.

Oh, man. I knew I shouldn't've posted in this thread.

There're so many reasons why I think dude is wrong. (I'm cooking dinner right now, but I'll come back and talk more about this after I've eaten.)

[behndy]

lol. no hate homie. just curious where his opinions and yours diverge.

[Chankgeez]

Oh, yeah, I know you're not hatin'.

I think that both venue owners and musicians often have unreal expectations of audience turn out and/or how monies should be divvied up. It doesn't help that because of inexperience sometimes everyone involved doesn't really know what to expect and/or how to go about insuring that everyone gets their due.

While I'm fully down with the tenor of that little rant (because that's really what it is), I think the dude is going about things in the wrong way. Everybody wants to get paid, but all the factors here are so subjective. Great cuisine? Subjective. Great décor? Subjective. Who's to say if music provided is great or not? The venue owner? The musicians? The audience? (Not like that even makes a difference.) This is a matter of sheer economics. Are people willing to pay a cover to experience live music and spend money on drinks while enjoying said music? That's what it comes down to.

(I think the "pour wine" analogy is unrealistic.)

I also think that arguing with venue owners is rarely helpful. Talking? Yes. Arguing? No. Why even bother bickering about whose responsibility it is to fill a place with people? Everyone agrees that a full venue is better than an empty venue. Why not work together to achieve that end instead of trying to pin the blame squarely upon one party or another? It's a two way street. The relationship should be symbiotic, not parasitic. Good promotion is a shared burden.

I agree with his "build a fan base for the venue" comment. It's called have regular customers or building a scene, your choice.

I don't understand what he wants musicians to fight for. Playing for a cut of the door is fine if you have any kind of draw. (Door deals are for performers who can't get a guarantee anyway.) I don't know why he's complaining about people not coming out to hear his band play. He's playing jazz, not the most commercial of musics. Definitely a niche market. If he's in it for the money, he's picked the wrong style of music. Barking up wrong tree.

(Wow, this is getting to be a long post.)

There are also other factors that he didn't address. Time of year and the weather would be just a couple of them.

That's my two cents. YMMV.

[bigchiefbc]

I get what you're saying, and I agree with a lot of what you said. For me personally, I just don't want to bother worrying about how many heads come in, so I generally turn down door gigs. If I can't get a guaranteed amount, I say thanks but no. And it's not like my band is big, either. I'd rather just say no and have no gig that particular weekend then potentially play for free to an empty house. Because if a place won't give me a guarantee, then they probably don't have a loyal clientele in the first place.

There've been a few times where we compromised and did a lower guaranteed PLUS a piece of the door. If the bar is willing to meet me halfway, it gives me a better feeling. In fact, one of those is a gig at the end of this month. It's our first time playing at this place, they don't know us other than our references, and we don't know them, so they're giving us 200 (half of our normal fee) + half the door. That's reasonable, and I agreed to it immediately.

[Chankgeez]

Yeah, bcbc, it all depends on the reasons you're gigging. If musicians have any aspirations of popularity they'll take any gig they can get (within reason). You've got a day job. You might not wanna worry about the number of heads coming in, but someone else has to.

Guarantee + a percentage of the door is definitely the best deal. You gotta have some kind of a draw for that though.