pffffffffffffffffft

[dubkitty]

and things were going so nicely with the pleasant, demo-making, taking-care-of-business Devi. i guess i should have known that wasn't going to last more than a few weeks.

[Gearmond]

the bright side of an outspoken attitude is that you get to see which people should shut the fuck up about certain issues.

and to be quite frank, as someone with a near statistically impossibly large number of LGBTQ friends, most of you guys are embarassingly ignorant of stuff.

and i'm going to call out dubkitty in particular about his loverly closing post on Oh Billy about how referring to Devi as "him/her" somehow isn't phobic.

its not outrightly phobic, but it goes FAR beyond rude and into actively provocative and aggressive, and the equal in a more familiar bit of minority tension actually is the [EDITED] v. black as devi mentioned in the video, which i thought was scads more mature than how billy was handling the situation.

but then again its all so easy to criticize from the internet and not expect to be reprimanded for it. hell, thats why that caps-lock distraction Jaime stuck around for so long. and dude, you know your shit about some stuff, but my respect for you would GREATLY increase if you learned when you don't know shit about stuff and would stay quiet on the matter.

theres a reason you'll never see me in politics or sports forums :P

[dubkitty]

you assume that disagreeing with you = "ignorant." and that it then follows that people who, in so disagreeing, should "shut the fuck up." this is logically defective. it's also not a given that simply because you have a large number of gay friends, that their opinions or yours are automatically correct; gay peoples' opinions and positions can be as ill-informed, self-serving, or dishonest as those of any other interest group, and gay political and social opinion is not monolithic. you might also reflect on whether the lives and experiences of the people, age cohort, and area you're familiar with are representative of the wider country as compared to, say, the city of Chicago and San Francisco Bay Area i've lived in. things aren't nearly as black and white as you think they are.

[dubkitty]

its not outrightly phobic, but it goes FAR beyond rude and into actively provocative and aggressive, and the equal in a more familiar bit of minority tension actually is the [EDITED] v. black as devi mentioned in the video, which i thought was scads more mature than how billy was handling the situation.

see, here's where i differ from your opinion: as i said somewhere else, if Devi did indeed make the remark about BC being a homosexual who got fucked by Trent Reznor, that's every bit as much hate speech as anything BC said. follow the logic: if you were an Muslim and someone called you a Christian, could that be considered hate speech? under some hate-speech standards, the answer is "yes." if so, then it's also hate speech to call a hetero a homosexual bottom falsely. logic is as logic does; offense is offense. Billy's fault is in escalating to a whole new level of stupid and ugly.

[Gearmond]

no i'm saying that in this particular instance you ARE ignorant, as i gave a perfectly sound and effective comparison to what you said, to illustrate the ignorance of it. i said it was ignorant and stated why through a counterexample.

i said that because it means that its an issue that i know a lot about, and an issue that i'm really close to. in other words, my opinions and position have levity. some of my gay/trans friends are dumb, but most are well informed and educated people that would know very well what is/isn't insulting on a principle level.

and if they aren't black and white, why should i take your mentions of Chicago and San Fran as black and white as you mean for me to take them? you obviously meant to have a very strong association to "these are really gay areas stereotypically" but the truth isn't black and white, i'm sure.

[behndy]

all i'm sayin'...... is that i WANT A SILVER ROSE. the DubStep thing will be cool if she gets it to work. the CopilotFX one was..... not that...... good........ it'd be neat if somebody figured out some Wahmp WAHMP in a single box.

but the Silver Rose looks like a huge sick BITCH. WANT.

....... still kinda want a Heaven's Gate too. huh. weird. i haven't been interested in any Devi stuff awile. neat.

are either of those available yet?

[Gearmond]

its not outrightly phobic, but it goes FAR beyond rude and into actively provocative and aggressive, and the equal in a more familiar bit of minority tension actually is the [EDITED] v. black as devi mentioned in the video, which i thought was scads more mature than how billy was handling the situation.

see, here's where i differ from your opinion: as i said somewhere else, if Devi did indeed make the remark about BC being a homosexual who got fucked by Trent Reznor, that's every bit as much hate speech as anything BC said. follow the logic: if you were an Muslim and someone called you a Christian, could that be considered hate speech? under some hate-speech standards, the answer is "yes." if so, then it's also hate speech to call a hetero a homosexual bottom falsely. logic is as logic does; offense is offense. Billy's fault is in escalating to a whole new level of stupid and ugly.

you know i'd trust you to at least think that multiple proven instances of hate speech hold more weight in this situation that a single instance of rumored insults.

and if you also mention scale as being important to this argument (and saying that Billy took it much farther), logic doesn't follow that you should be arguing like both sides have equal weight, which is what you've been doing.

[dubkitty]

no...i meant that they're large metropolitan areas that i've lived in for many years which are bigger than Cleveland, though i did additionally intend that those cities' gay communities have a more age- and experience-diverse population that your friends may be, and possibly less driven by activism and other concerns of the relatively young.

[dubkitty]

and what about the torrent of hate speech to which Monte was subjected, and to which Devi enthusiastically contributed? you simply can't expect to shit all over people who you disagree with and then expect their friends to pat you on the head and say "oh, that's nice."

[theavondon]

lemme just chime in and say


pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft

ya'll mad

[dubkitty]

of course i am...i just realized i'm trying to use logic in a discussion about an argument between Devi Ever and Billy Corgan. Fuck me silly, i'm off.

[Gearmond]

no...i meant that they're large metropolitan areas that i've lived in for many years which are bigger than Cleveland, though i did additionally intend that those cities' gay communities have a more age- and experience-diverse population that your friends may be, and possibly less driven by activism and other concerns of the relatively young.

so why would you mention them if your primary reason was something that was irrelevant to the issue at hand, moreover why would you one, assume that all my friends are young (and implicitly ignorant judging by your post) and two think that activism seems to be some sort of naive past time of the youth?

and what about the torrent of hate speech to which Monte was subjected, and to which Devi enthusiastically contributed? you simply can't expect to shit all over people who you disagree with and then expect their friends to pat you on the head and say "oh, that's nice."

i believe i made a post about how discrimination of discrimination ultimately promotes overall tolerance, and how its not really a catch-22 that most people seem to think it is.

think of it like weeding weeds that removes plants that make it difficult for other plants to grow (most invasive species for example). being tolerant of intolerance is being tacitly intolerant yourself.

of course i am...i just realized i'm trying to use logic in a discussion about an argument between Devi Ever and Billy Corgan. Fuck me silly, i'm off.

i have yet to see any of this so called logic you speak of. but nice excuse to get out of a losing argument . real class move right there.

[dubkitty]

so why would you mention them if your primary reason was something that was irrelevant to the issue at hand, moreover why would you one, assume that all my friends are young (and implicitly ignorant judging by your post) and two think that activism seems to be some sort of naive past time of the youth?

the fact that the cities are larger and more diverse, and that i lived in them over a long period of time, isn't irrelevant to the distribution of opinion. i'm assuming your friends are young, activist, and relatively ignorant because you seem that way, and in general "activism" is a naive pastime of "the youth"...only college kids with no real life responsibilities have time for that shit. you asked.

i believe i made a post about how discrimination of discrimination ultimately promotes overall tolerance, and how its not really a catch-22 that most people seem to think it is.

think of it like weeding weeds that removes plants that make it difficult for other plants to grow (most invasive species for example). being tolerant of intolerance is being tacitly intolerant yourself.

yes, you did, and it was cheap sophistry then too, easily turned on you thus: your views are obviously intolerant of religion. therefore your views must not be tolerated, and can be driven from the field of discourse under the banner of promoting overall tolerance. in fact, expect radical Muslims to make precisely that argument, as they're already doing in some European countries in arguing against gay rights. how do you solve a problem like sharia?

[dubkitty]

now may i go, or must you have another round? and by the way, when you say your argument has "levity," you're saying it's silly.

[tuffteef]

trouble loves me