--

[Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.]

eff that dude yo, he sounds like a douche

[dubkitty]

is it possible to actually sit down with him in the same room? it might help a lot if you can sit and sketch stuff out together. trying to describe visual/graphic images in words is never fully effective.

i don't know what standard practice is for free-lancers these days, but it seems like it'd be fair to pay him something.

[grindonomicon]

Sketches and clear ideas-instructions are very important. So is setting your 'flexibility limit', because there's always going to be some room for artist interpretation.

Your budget-price for the art should also be stated clearly up front - "You do cover / cover + back cover / entire CD packaging, and make it look awesome, and we pay you $xx-xxx dollars.". If an artist has to 'bill you for hours', you need a new artist. If they want twice what your budget is, again, find another artist.

If you can him, personally, I would not pay him, and I'd let him know why right when you can him. You can be nice and say 'he spent four hours on it', or you can be realistic and realise he wasted four hours of your time detailing changes he felt empowered to make in your band's art & cover. Screw that. Again, he's not your art director, and he's not funding the release. Would you pay a studio for four hours of engineering if they never got around to recording + mixing?

I don't mean to sound like a dick about artists, but I've had contact with ppl who want $400+ for just cover art that is hell easy-fast to do, and I've found DIY artists who will do art in trade for records, or do incredible woodcuts + prints so cheap I've had to tell them I would pay that + more or add records they can sell. Good artists are out there, and not hard to find if you dig a little.

one more note - flattery is good too. if you like the work he's done, tell him you like that and you'd like to see him make your vision come alive on the CD cover... also soft-stepping the 'sorry, really need it done the way we want' by saying 'you can do it!'. you could prob even hire rob schneider to say it.

[rbtr]

Can I be honest and say his concept sounds really neat and surreal? Also geometric lines, if tightly packed enough vibrate with a lot of energy, because our eyes can't process it. It's pretty psychedelic, look up "op-art". I think the best thing to do would be to get together with him, and draw out ideas, and brainstorm. What kind of sketches has he done? Has he done any? Get him to do some, or at least show you the ones he has done. If he's only told you what he'd like to do it means jack shit without a drawing. You need to work with him more, and he needs to work with you more. And if you don't like the work in the end, you really shouldn't have to pay for it. It depends on the contract you wrote with him, and the expectations you detailed.

Also, remember, while you were out touring, and making music. This guy was drawing, and designing, he should know his stuff, and if he doesn't dump him!

[oinkbanana]

---

[Caesar]

You should replace those fugly lookin guys with a pic of two hot girls making out. IT WILL SELL.

[bob the r0bot]

Stupid idea time!:
Why don't you pit him against us. I know we have a lot of talented artists here so, why not get some people here to take a crack at it. If one of us produces something you like, you show it to him and tell him to do better. If he can't use our artwork and either pay the person who made it or donate what you had allocated for artwork to tom for hosting costs.

[oinkbanana]

---

[theavondon]

I understand the conflict that lies within a designer when he or her is instructed to just put together an idea. Designers love to just...think. They'll rattle off a billion ideas. My friend Max, when designing the album art for a friend's band (finished product is actually visible here http://twoknights.org) came up with eight completely different ideas before he even started the final one. One of the ideas went as far as almost being completed, and Max decided that it wasn't any good at all. But, that was because the band asked Max to create the art, and gave him free reign. When I asked him to help me out with my band's inside jacket art, I had an idea, and he executed that idea. Now, he gave input, and came up with some ideas (my idea was just for him to draw a bunch of pictures of the three band members in various states of dress and costume, and we brainstormed what ridiculous things we'd have on), but ultimately, he executed the idea I had, because that's what I asked for.

So, ultimately, it's YOUR idea now, and he really should just execute YOUR idea. Otherwise, it's simply unprofessional.

[bob the r0bot]

^that is a kickass cover

[theavondon]

^that is a kickass cover

All of the colors are shirts that Max owns. He just scanned them. Also,

[eatyourguitar]

I totally understand that you want him to execute but I had to go back and read what you want done and put myself in his shoes. I do graphic design and photoshop as I'm sure a lot of people have. if you had approached me I would be scratching my head as to exactly what you want. I'm looking at your photo but its kind of a mess. my first instinct is to take you out of the photo and give you a picture that meets all your adjectives. keeping you in the photo and keeping you as instantly recognizable subjects requires some kind of photo shoot. you just cant do it without the photo shoot. those two photos you used aren't even taken together, there is no flow at all. the clothes are just boring and distracting. you should be a head or get any kind of clothes thats fit for a good photo shoot. your designer is just to afraid to tell you your design isn't working without modification so he is just focusing on the solution. its a very vulcan way of thinking really. so I don't think he is a dick so much as he is finding it difficult to please his boss and himself for the basic gut instinct of quality control that every qualified artist has. especially when it has their name on it.

[oinkbanana]

---

[oinkbanana]

---

[theavondon]

update.

the guy might have been over an hour late showing up for the "photoshoot", i didn't wait any longer to find out if he ever showed up.
so i just sent him a canning email...

next time, trust my gut from the beginning.

Sigh. Well, you always hope that human beings won't let you down. Alas, they tend to disappoint.