Dealing with bass/low end in a guitar lead 2 piece

[Kacey Y]

Show the foh engineer the cable that connects your guitar to the amp and let them know it's a guitar cab, so they can mic it.

[whoismarykelly]

Your front end processing is a little shy of what I do and I have found that everything in fron of the amp is what makes the difference. I use a very elaborate tone print on a Sub n Up and then compress that signal and feed it to an articulate bass drive like a B7K. If you want better consistency you have to write for the rig so you always have low notes in the mix and you have to compress that guitar signal so it is loud and even.

[KingNed]

Your front end processing is a little shy of what I do and I have found that everything in fron of the amp is what makes the difference. I use a very elaborate tone print on a Sub n Up and then compress that signal and feed it to an articulate bass drive like a B7K. If you want better consistency you have to write for the rig so you always have low notes in the mix and you have to compress that guitar signal so it is loud and even.

Compression is definitely something I've never looked at for the bass signal and I'm not sure why I haven't. Point well raised.
What's going on in the toneprint? I was considering getting a SubnUp for bass and then putting the Pitchfork on my guitar side for harmonies.
Writing for the rig isn't usually a problem. I've been playing with this setup for about 2 years now and I play a lot of single note stuff, or if there are chords, they're either higher chords or lower octaves to avoid muddiness.

Any pics of your rig? Sounds cool. Your band is also sick!

[MechaGodzilla]

The *best* sounding 2-pieces I've seen live didn't rely on adding a sub octave the whole time, but had a generally full and fat sounding guitar with octaves/synth pedals used for emphasis here and there.

Yeah, I try and use the bass as an additional element to amplify certain sections and stuff, but sometimes it sounds wicked just go ham the whole way through. Some of our best received songs tend to be just all on all the way through so I'm not sure what to think sometimes. What kind of synth pedals have you seen used well in this application?

I'm pretty sure the guitarist from Blood Red Shoes has used an ehx microsynth for years.

[KingNed]

I'm pretty sure the guitarist from Blood Red Shoes has used an ehx microsynth for years.

Oh cool. One of my best friends owns one. Might borrow it and see if I can make use of it!

[whoismarykelly]

Your front end processing is a little shy of what I do and I have found that everything in fron of the amp is what makes the difference. I use a very elaborate tone print on a Sub n Up and then compress that signal and feed it to an articulate bass drive like a B7K. If you want better consistency you have to write for the rig so you always have low notes in the mix and you have to compress that guitar signal so it is loud and even.

Compression is definitely something I've never looked at for the bass signal and I'm not sure why I haven't. Point well raised.
What's going on in the toneprint? I was considering getting a SubnUp for bass and then putting the Pitchfork on my guitar side for harmonies.
Writing for the rig isn't usually a problem. I've been playing with this setup for about 2 years now and I play a lot of single note stuff, or if there are chords, they're either higher chords or lower octaves to avoid muddiness.

Any pics of your rig? Sounds cool. Your band is also sick!

Thanks! This is the board I use currently. Starting after the splitter, which is a transformer-isolated RJM model, the whole top row of pedals is bass and the whole bottom row is guitar with the exception of the Raptio which is the first pedal in line and feeds both chains.



The box on the top left is my breakout box. It takes the signals from both chains and adds a mute for each side as well as managing my front end sends to the bass/guitar amps and patch bay for the effects loop on my amp. I have a big 5-channel snake I built to handle all the lines back to the amps.

Amps on stage look like this


The SubnUp toneprint will need to be tailored to your rig but I cut below about 60hz on the input and then boost upper midrange and 100hz on the output. All the knobs except the 1 octave down are turned off as well. Also I don't know what tuning you play in but my lowest string is a G and I use a .080 for that note. Then the bass rig is getting an octave down from that so the G below low B on a 5 string bass. The extra string mass makes the whole bass side sound much more natural. If you're playing in a higher tuning I find this kind of rig is harder to get going right as it sounds more synthy.

[ognoy]

That rig looks wicked whoismarykelly!
Are any of the albums on you bandcamp recorded with that rig?

[JonnyAngle]

DI is not friendly to distorted bass.

Forgot about this. A speaker sim helps to remedy this. I use a Palmer jdi09 and think it works great.

[KingNed]

What an awesome rig. Very inspiring. Great 1000th post as well haha! The signal path makes a lot of sense.
I use a variety of tunings. Highest I go is CGCGBE on one guitar (54 on lowest. Might try higher), and then either BADGBE or AADGBE on the other (with a 60 on the bottom). Changes song to song. I'm very tempted to get a SubNUp mini and build a toneprint like yours - tailored to my rig.

Currently, I'm in the process of kinda rebuilding my rig after having to sell a few things but I'll definitely post it once it's finished. I have a Boss ES-5 sending MIDI to a Lehle ABY before it which splits one side to the bass board, and the other back into the ES-5, which has all of my pedals in loops. Each patch switches the Lehle to turn bass on and off -- so I have clean with no bass, clean with bass, distortion without bass, distortion with bass etc.

Guitar rig is/will be (once I finish building it) a rack dual preamp I'm building myself with a Sunn Model T preamp one one side, and a Plexi preamp on the other feeding 2 channels of a QSC stereo power amp and then each side feeding separate cabs.
Bass amp is whatever I get to use depending on the gig, but my own setup for when I need to provide bass is a 4x10 with a GK 400rb. I've put way more effort into the guitar rig as 90% of the time I don't supply bass, and usually can't because I don't drive and taxi drivers get pissed off when you fill up a 6 person taxi with your whole backline...

DI is not friendly to distorted bass.

Forgot about this. A speaker sim helps to remedy this. I use a Palmer jdi09 and think it works great.

I think a cab sim is gonna be a good idea. PDI-09 looks great as well.
I'm looking at adding a comp and EQ to my bass board as well and that should help me tune things a bit more.

[John]

It seems like you've had success with micing your rig, so just bring your own mic and stand. Shure Beta 52 for the most feedback rejection (it's a closed-back mic), or AKG D112 for a more open sound (open-backed mic, may pick up more stage sound). Or a Heil PR 30 or PR 48. Or an EV RE320 if you have the room on stage.

[whoismarykelly]

That rig looks wicked whoismarykelly!
Are any of the albums on you bandcamp recorded with that rig?

The albums are all done with a Science Decolonizer for guitar and various bass amps but I track real bass on the records because it sounds better in the mix and I have the time to do it. I consider live and recorded to be separate entities. The record sounds brutal with double tracking and separate bass parts. Live sound destroys because its super loud and low and no one we ever play with seems to be able to compete

[whoismarykelly]

What an awesome rig. Very inspiring. Great 1000th post as well haha! The signal path makes a lot of sense.
I use a variety of tunings. Highest I go is CGCGBE on one guitar (54 on lowest. Might try higher), and then either BADGBE or AADGBE on the other (with a 60 on the bottom). Changes song to song. I'm very tempted to get a SubNUp mini and build a toneprint like yours - tailored to my rig.

Currently, I'm in the process of kinda rebuilding my rig after having to sell a few things but I'll definitely post it once it's finished. I have a Boss ES-5 sending MIDI to a Lehle ABY before it which splits one side to the bass board, and the other back into the ES-5, which has all of my pedals in loops. Each patch switches the Lehle to turn bass on and off -- so I have clean with no bass, clean with bass, distortion without bass, distortion with bass etc.

Guitar rig is/will be (once I finish building it) a rack dual preamp I'm building myself with a Sunn Model T preamp one one side, and a Plexi preamp on the other feeding 2 channels of a QSC stereo power amp and then each side feeding separate cabs.
Bass amp is whatever I get to use depending on the gig, but my own setup for when I need to provide bass is a 4x10 with a GK 400rb. I've put way more effort into the guitar rig as 90% of the time I don't supply bass, and usually can't because I don't drive and taxi drivers get pissed off when you fill up a 6 person taxi with your whole backline...

Im in GGCFAD so similar vibes. Try a 72 for that A. You'll get a lot more of the high mass bass string tone that way. I would consider at least bringing your own bass head at all times as that's a huge part of the rig and not all amps handle the octave pedal signal very well. My bass amp for the last few years has been a Mesa D800 which is 5 pounds, comes with its own case, and absolutely slays.

[KingNed]

Im in GGCFAD so similar vibes. Try a 72 for that A. You'll get a lot more of the high mass bass string tone that way. I would consider at least bringing your own bass head at all times as that's a huge part of the rig and not all amps handle the octave pedal signal very well. My bass amp for the last few years has been a Mesa D800 which is 5 pounds, comes with its own case, and absolutely slays.

I may try a higher gauge soon for the low string. Having that extra mass helps Im sure. I've never ventured past a 60.

I've been using a Mesa Subway preamp alongside my QSC power amp and that sounded quite cool. I'm a bit broke right now but have moved the power amp over to the guitar side.
I've wanted a D800 since I saw the bassist from Bongripper using one. Looks awesome, and the preamp sounded great as well.

Any other amps you've tried that handle the octave sound well? I tried a Peavey firebass once and that actually sounded wicked. Bringing my own head is definitely a good idea.

[whoismarykelly]

Ive used my Science Mother, a Mesa 400+, and the D800. Ive found that most lower end amps dont really handle the sub bass as well.

[Bon Hoga]

I was curious if you guys, in your infinite wisdom, had any ideas about how I could better approach the low end of my rig in order to attain more consistency, or perhaps improve my overall tone.
Any ideas?

Been in a duo for about six years now, Bass VI is the only thing that has made me happy.