Did we ever have net neutrality?

[JonnyAngle]

That tech is extremely valuable to both companies even if net neutrality stays. Either via patent rights or to still be faster than their competitors.

RE voip, one of the things that started net neutrality was a case where an isp just suddenly stopped voip so people would be forced to pay for their phone network as well. This would be allowed again with net neutrality removed.

Interesting. I'm not too savvy on the back end of how data gets transferred and who owns what hardware.

However, this video is hilarious. I hope this type of internet hi jinx never goes away

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zda-FC7NK24[/youtube]

[Chankgeez]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/co ... 4377684379

[BetterOffShred]

I live in the state of Washington.. and we recently passed legislation to allow grocery stores to sell spirits and closed up all the state run liquor stores. Costco and a few other spent some ridiculous amount of money like 100 million in advertising to pass this. Everyone got out their "well the government isn't that efficient we shouldn't have them running a business like this.. we will save money if Costco sells it" .. The problem is that the state still gets it's tax on it.. so.. is Costco going to sell it at a loss? The answer is no. Now that there are no other choices, grocery stores sell it for easily 30% more than before and the selections carried are super generic.

My point here is that all these arguments about how nothing will change in my opinion are ludicrous. If a company can make more money, they are going to figure out how to do it. And of that comes at the cost of John Q. Shred's internet service getting more expensive if you want to stream Netflix or do Google searches for porn, or any other of a million things, it's like 99.999% certain to happen.

As a lot of other people have pointed out, in many areas all of the internet infrastructure is controlled by one company, so if you don't like it, tough shit.

[wafl]

Hey so I kinda think the far more pressing issue with net neutrality is in the fact that the internet has become an indispensable tool for organizing any sort of activist type thing as well as a way to access alternatives to corporate media. If nn goes away whats to stop the major corporations from simply not allowing people to access anti capitalist news sources? Nothing. Oh you are organizing a labour protest? no more internet for you.
Yeah your prices might go up but that's just a symptom of living under a capitalist economy, profit motive always drives prices up. Internet here has become increasingly more expensive and we have tons of "competition."

Giving corporations unfettered control over communication will absolutely result in abuse.

[repoman]

Even if ISPs are already acting like quasi-monopolies, that's still much better than actually governmental backed true monopolies. There is room for improvement in the future with one, mountains of bureaucracy and other nefarious shit in the future with the other. All these companies like reddit, facebook, twitter,google, et al whining about how this will be the end of 'a free and open internet'...pfft get fucked.

[BetterOffShred]

Hey so I kinda think the far more pressing issue with net neutrality is in the fact that the internet has become an indispensable tool for organizing any sort of activist type thing as well as a way to access alternatives to corporate media. If nn goes away whats to stop the major corporations from simply not allowing people to access anti capitalist news sources? Nothing. Oh you are organizing a labour protest? no more internet for you.
Yeah your prices might go up but that's just a symptom of living under a capitalist economy, profit motive always drives prices up. Internet here has become increasingly more expensive and we have tons of "competition."

Giving corporations unfettered control over communication will absolutely result in abuse.

Yep. And it starts with money. And then they pull a photobucket on us.

[wafl]

Even if ISPs are already acting like quasi-monopolies, that's still much better than actually governmental backed true monopolies. There is room for improvement in the future with one, mountains of bureaucracy and other nefarious shit in the future with the other. All these companies like reddit, facebook, twitter,google, et al whining about how this will be the end of 'a free and open internet'...pfft get fucked.

The only room for improvement is nationalization

[PeteeBee]

I live in the state of Washington.. and we recently passed legislation to allow grocery stores to sell spirits and closed up all the state run liquor stores. Costco and a few other spent some ridiculous amount of money like 100 million in advertising to pass this. Everyone got out their "well the government isn't that efficient we shouldn't have them running a business like this.. we will save money if Costco sells it" .. The problem is that the state still gets it's tax on it.. so.. is Costco going to sell it at a loss? The answer is no. Now that there are no other choices, grocery stores sell it for easily 30% more than before and the selections carried are super generic.

My point here is that all these arguments about how nothing will change in my opinion are ludicrous. If a company can make more money, they are going to figure out how to do it. And of that comes at the cost of John Q. Shred's internet service getting more expensive if you want to stream Netflix or do Google searches for porn, or any other of a million things, it's like 99.999% certain to happen.

As a lot of other people have pointed out, in many areas all of the internet infrastructure is controlled by one company, so if you don't like it, tough shit.

Word. I heard someone in the California state government (missed who it was) talking about legislation they are working on for a state version of NN. He spoke of being on good terms with higher ups at AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, and the like. The ISP people were saying that they didn't want to nickel and dime anyone, but it would be unfair to their shareholders to not pursue the most profit they can make, whatever that looks like.

[Kacey Y]

Word. I heard someone in the California state government (missed who it was) talking about legislation they are working on for a state version of NN. He spoke of being on good terms with higher ups at AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, and the like. The ISP people were saying that they didn't want to nickel and dime anyone, but it would be unfair to their shareholders to not pursue the most profit they can make, whatever that looks like.

That's one of the things I feel like people really don't get about these big companies that provide services to people. Individual people talking about the issue and politicians keep talking about consumer protections and regulations as if these companies are beholden to the people paying for their services to keep them in business, so if people don't like what they're doing, they'll regulated themselves. If it's a publicly traded company, the people who pay for the service are not the concern of the people running the company, the share holders are. Which means maximum profit, with a model of infinite exponential growth as the target for success. Major companies have had huge stock sell offs because they made more one quarter than the last, but not as much as they projected, so they're labeled as failing and badly managed. Banks are an excellent example of this. Customers are practically incidental to banks outside of local credit unions these days. They charge you to keep your money there and use it, then take your money and invest it, to make sure the share holders see growth in the company's profits.

[UglyCasanova]

When you're sitting pretty watching this disaster unfold

[Jwar]

I think what's been missed by some that may seem to understand the reasoning behind this shit is that the government is continuing to restrict our liberties as a people. We are fast stead becoming an oppressive nation and that is not an overstatement or a snowflake comment. It's facts. We lost control over our Health Care, which was already in a dismal place of ridiculousness due to a plan that was so fucking stupid that it couldn't work for the long run. For that I blame Congress for wasting 8 years of the Obama administration and not working on a way to fucking fix it. We have become aware of the fact that our government is watching us on a continuous basis (and no, it's not paranoid delusions, they are literally doing it) via all devices we have.They started using tools like Facebook to brain wash people, and this is a serious thing. Look at the trend with news on Facebook. It's a toxic, awful place that is set up to fuck your brain. The food we eat is poison, so we are being decimated inside and out. The water is poison. The air is poison. Noise pollution everywhere. Nation being led by fucking business men and women who dictate, not lead. Chem trails (which are fucking real even if I don't want to admit it). Etc.

Our government is systematically dismantling us. They are calculating our demise to turn us into brainwashed idiots, which in a lot of cases has already happened. People are no longer forward thinking or progressive, they are broken down, mindless idiots. It's from everything constantly killing us mentally. It's quickly becoming They Live in the modern day setting.

I'm not even close to joking about the way I feel either. I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, I look at facts. The facts are pointing to us being fucked on a constant basis.

Net neutrality is literally cutting our balls off. They are doing this shit to hurt us.

[Kacey Y]

At the risk of coming off like a nihilist (which I'm not), I think the reality is way more pathetic than that JWAR. I think it's just that every person in a position of power is thinking about the next paycheck, the next vacation house, the next boat, the next luxury car. They see dollar signs and they just sell off a piece of everything a bit at a time, with no concern for big picture or consequence. Everything is a political game, a deal, a con, an ego contest and we all get dragged down into the mud, calling each other idiots and fascists and snowflakes and every horrible racial slur, we attack and kill each other...meanwhile the people benefiting from all of it don't give a shit about any of the actual argument, they're just playing their game and getting their piece.

Like Wirth's monologue from Cube, but even more sad and pathetic, because real life is nowhere near as well engineered or efficient as the Cube.

[Jwar]

Fully agree. It's not being nihilistic if it's the truth. You're being a realist.

[jrfox92]

I think what's been missed by some that may seem to understand the reasoning behind this shit is that the government is continuing to restrict our liberties as a people.

Net neutrality is literally cutting our balls off. They are doing this shit to hurt us.

See, I don't think these two views, necessarily, relate the way you think they do.

Government is restricting out liberties for power, right?
Well, that power is partially attained by being in the pocket of corporations (such as ISP's).
So, when a certain government mandate prevents those corporations from doing whatever the fuck they want, the corporations don't like it. So they launch a campaign to convince you that the thing that prevents them from doing whatever they want is really government overreach to keep you from getting the iPhone10k™ rather than to keep them from, effectively, forcing you to buy the iPhone10k™ rather than stick to your Samsung∞™ because you think the iPhone10k™ is kinda shitty and too slow to watch porn on (this is just a metaphorical example, I don't actually think that ISP's are terribly concerned about which phone you use, they're concerned about you using their products & services and only their products & services).

Acting like Net Neutrality is The Government's way of trying to rule the internet or whatever (assuming that's what you're suggesting) is like viewing anti-trust laws as The Government's attempt to take over all business or that Glass-Steagall was The Government's attempt to control the country's wealth.

And another thing; the government isn't why people are being brainwashed by social media.
People are being brainwashed by social media because they're too lazy to not be brainwashed by it.
While the government is definitely watching you and what you post, they're not what's convincing people that Nazi's are just misunderstood, that beating the shit out of people that aren't communists is okay, and that the Earth is flat.
People being too stupid to utilize critical thinking at any venture is why so many people are "being brainwashed".

[wafl]