Gear preview 2017

[jrfox92]

People talk about SMD as a problem because of repair fears and most of those people have probably never done any rework. Pull a DIP16 IC out of a plated through hole board and then do the same with an SMD application. One will take you 30 seconds. The other will take 30 minutes and you'll beat up the board in the process.

I've done SMD repairs, but it usually ends in the piece I'm trying to remove being completely annihilated.

SMD > Through Hole

Shit is so much easier to solder and you buy a hot air gun and it's so much easier to fix.

I really need to get a hot air gun, but I just don't do SMD repairs often enough.

[actual]

I won't get too much into the small SMD components vs. "real" size components, cause my experience isn't too great there, but I'm pretty sure they make a difference in sound. It can't see why it wouldn't.

[actual]

I'm impressed by the price, sound, size and look. It sound great and seems to do a lot for a good price. Are there any good quality products that can contend with this price point? I don't know. I'm no that knowledgable of this stuff. I do like it however.

The reason why I'm not impressed, is that there's a fuckton of small desktop analogs on the market right now. The reason Roland is able to make them at this price, is because of the massive scale they're able to produce em at, that other smaller companies simply can't. As you know, large scale production leads to a whole bunch of benefits, including reduced prices. Roland has also opted to not make them by hand, which is what a lot of other companies do, again saving a penny. So, to continue my argument from above, if I were to be impressed by the price point, I'd have to be impressed by the benefits of having a large production and machine-made vs. hand-made. Which again, I am not.

[whoismarykelly]

I won't get too much into the small SMD components vs. "real" size components, cause my experience isn't too great there, but I'm pretty sure they make a difference in sound. It can't see why it wouldn't.

Every piece of gear in the world sounds 'different.' Even different examples of the same model. Electronic parts all have tolerances. But the materials that SMD components are made of are the same materials through hole components are made of. Agonizing over the package format of each component in a piece of gear is a complete waste of time. If you don't like the sound of something that's fine but don't blame it on surface mount vs. through hole.

[actual]

Read the post again. I wasn't blaming anything on anything, cause I don't have sufficient experience to form a proper opinion. It just doesn't make sense, to me, why some components are fucking huge, when the same function, apparently can be had from something much smaller. Thus, there must be a difference.

Edit: Oh, you think I was blaming the sound of the SE 02 on it being SMD? Again, read the above posts, cause I haven't said anything like that.

[ryan_biggamepedals]

Hi, I don't post much, but this is actually an interesting topic for me. A lot of things I have been working on features SMD or at least a mix. Most of that decision is because of a number of components. The past two have had 115 and 140 components and trying to fit that into a 1590BB is near impossible, and I think I'm pretty decent at PCB design. I think people seem more open to SMD in not distorting pedals. Seeing something like an SMD Fuzz Face would be super lame, but for the most part, I haven't heard a difference in sound.

People talk about SMD as a problem because of repair fears and most of those people have probably never done any rework. Pull a DIP16 IC out of a plated through hole board and then do the same with an SMD application. One will take you 30 seconds. The other will take 30 minutes and you'll beat up the board in the process.

I've done SMD repairs, but it usually ends in the piece I'm trying to remove being completely annihilated.

SMD > Through Hole

Shit is so much easier to solder and you buy a hot air gun and it's so much easier to fix.

I really need to get a hot air gun, but I just don't do SMD repairs often enough.

That's why I switch my voltage converters to SMD, much easier to change than DIP converters with a hot air gun.

[actual]

but for the most part, I haven't heard a difference in sound.

But you have on some occasions? And why would an SMD Fuzz Face be lame? And why do a mix, if there isn't a difference?

[ryan_biggamepedals]

but for the most part, I haven't heard a difference in sound.

But you have on some occasions? And why would an SMD Fuzz Face be lame? And why do a mix, if there isn't a difference?

Well look at the JHS Calhoun guts, there's a fuzz face on the one side and its such little components, I just think it looks sad. Just my opinion. I mix because I use through hole parts for the fuzz section in the case of oscillation. Some parts end up too close for a high gain design that it's more prone to oscillation. It was just easier to not have to worry about that as much. I just made the whole fuzz part through hole and the filter and LFO are SMD. Looks nice too.

Also I am aware of the perception of SMD so, at the risk of pandering, I do think about how it might be perceived as people really dig opening pedals. It's not something I would ever use as an advertising tactic like "Through Hole Signal path," but it is on my mind.

[actual]

So the difference you've heard in sound, has purely been high gain circuits causing more oscillations?

[ryan_biggamepedals]

So the difference you've heard in sound, has purely been high gain circuits causing more oscillations?

Yeah, well it's very possible to achieve no extra oscillation, but some primitive circuits that are already prone to oscillation don't transfer well to tighter spaced SMD.

I think it also harder to tell in a distortion circuit, because there is so much extra harmonics and sound going on. The best test to truly see is to make a buffer with through hole and one SMD and see if you can tell the difference. Some people may be able to tell, but I doubt most people will.

[actual]

It'd be interesting to hear opinions from a synthmaker. Not to denounce your statements Ryan, I appreciate your insight.

[ryan_biggamepedals]

It'd be interesting to hear opinions from a synthmaker. Not to denounce your statements Ryan, I appreciate your insight.

[jrfox92]

I was just thinking about this, has anyone heard anything new about the Plus Pedal (the piano sustainer freeze thing)?
Not that I bought one, but they're supposed to ship next month and the company's been pretty quiet about it since NAMM.
Hopefully it doesn't end up being another vaporware situation.

[Jwar]

The oscillations occurs sometimes because the traces are too close together (I think thats basically what you're saying Ryan, so I'm reiterating that point). I know because I was designing a pedal that was very high gain with Roy from Greenhouse Pedals. I've had numerous other builders tell me that high gain can be achieved with SMD, no issues. The components are essentially the same as through hole.

Take Darkglass for instance. Doug used to make the B3K through hole, when he went SMD, there was literally no difference in sound.

You can say what you want about SMD all day, but it doesn't matter in most circuits.

Here's what I find hilarious. People are fucking OBSESSED with opening their pedals and 90% of them couldn't solder to save their life or tell you a single component in there. Now a lot of folks can, but it's become ridiculous to the point of pure stupidity. OMG there's a fucking wire that looks less than pretty or some other asinine shit that doesn't matter. Drive me bonkers and it's the reason I stopped doing rehouses that require full rewiring jobs, which trust me was most cases.

I'll take an SMD pedal any day over some shit box tube pedal or something fucking massive (unless Dan built it obviously) That's just my thoughts.

[jrfox92]

Here's what I find hilarious. People are fucking OBSESSED with opening their pedals and 90% of them couldn't solder to save their life or tell you a single component in there. Now a lot of folks can, but it's become ridiculous to the point of pure stupidity. OMG there's a fucking wire that looks less than pretty or some other asinine shit that doesn't matter.

This so much.
Shit's definitely gotten even more prevalent since Gutshotculture.
I mean, if you know what you're talking about, it makes sense to have a certain opinion about how the guts look, but half the time people are just talking out of their ass.