Aging Punx

[Invisible Man]

Is anyone else getting asked to consider 'economic realities' more and more? Getting older, taking on more responsibility, have a family, car, house, &c, which never bothered me (ideology is defined by action, not ownership), but damn if I don't feel it.

So: how do you split the difference between believing all of the dumb shit people say you need to do to be a mature contributor to society and wanting to blow everything the fuck up? It's unrealistic to say that we can all just go live on a commune somewhere, but soul-crushing to go to shit jobs and mortgage the present for a future that will never materialize. Where is your middle ground? What is survivable for you? How much evil are you willing to perpetrate to look after your babies/pedals?

[popvulture]

Pretty sure this is how my dad ended up being a far right winger, an about face from loving/sharing hippie to "fuck all of this—all I care about is my family."

I don't plan on ever doing that, but this kind of thing eats at me all the time. Mainly centers around me being much more selfish than I've led myself to believe.

[Invisible Man]

Pretty sure this is how my dad ended up being a far right winger, an about face from loving/sharing hippie to "fuck all of this—all I care about is my family."

I don't plan on ever doing that, but this kind of thing eats at me all the time. Mainly centers around me being much more selfish than I've led myself to believe.

Whoa yeah that's an interesting way to frame it out. Said it before here (I think), but the whole linear political spectrum seems less and less like a straight line the more I think about it--more like a circle with a little piece missing. The farther you move in one direction, the more susceptible you are to ideas from the fringe of the other. The fringes are close to one another, in other words.

And there are days when I think 'yeah, I'm just gonna get what's mine and look after my kids. Fuck everyone else.' I get that, but it is shitty.

[popvulture]

Yeah I totally agree with you about the circular nature of it. I witnessed that over the past year when the most liberal/pc of my friends (and I consider myself pretty damn liberal/pc) started condemning anyone for thoughts that veered even slightly off course from the party line. That kind of thought police shit is just as prohibitive/hypocritical as far right ideology, in my opinion. The finger pointing got even worse after Trump won (you're a heartless piece of shit for wearing that safety pin!).

But anyway, I think my dad was willing to go the route of "fuck everyone, focus on family" because he had a really bad childhood and never felt that anyone was there for him. Fortunately he gave me a much better upbringing, which has made me much more inclined to feel generous towards the outside world.

We're getting complicated here.

[Achtane]

I'm a humanist and a misanthrope.
I'll become a shitty, bitter old man.

[vallaton]

not that old yet, just 30. kinda hard to think about "growing up" and getting a steady job and a family. besides, i really don't see the future as something i'd like to bring more kids into.

[Invisible Man]

Yeah I totally agree with you about the circular nature of it. I witnessed that over the past year when the most liberal/pc of my friends (and I consider myself pretty damn liberal/pc) started condemning anyone for thoughts that veered even slightly off course from the party line. That kind of thought police shit is just as prohibitive/hypocritical as far right ideology, in my opinion. The finger pointing got even worse after Trump won (you're a heartless piece of shit for wearing that safety pin!).

But anyway, I think my dad was willing to go the route of "fuck everyone, focus on family" because he had a really bad childhood and never felt that anyone was there for him. Fortunately he gave me a much better upbringing, which has made me much more inclined to feel generous towards the outside world.

We're getting complicated here.

Inevitable!

It's a tough subject; I've lost some sleep over it. Your dad and I have the same issue, then.

Another way to look at it might be: how optimistic are you about the potential for change (social and personal)? And are you responsible for anyone other than yourself? And, regardless of modern conceptions of political thought, are you attenuated to these questions for any particular reason (i.e., do you love fuzz because of sonics, or because it is heavily deployed in music with a particular kind of perspective)?

On an unrelated note: I have never seen your avatar and not thought it said 'poopvulture.'

[popvulture]

Yeah I totally agree with you about the circular nature of it. I witnessed that over the past year when the most liberal/pc of my friends (and I consider myself pretty damn liberal/pc) started condemning anyone for thoughts that veered even slightly off course from the party line. That kind of thought police shit is just as prohibitive/hypocritical as far right ideology, in my opinion. The finger pointing got even worse after Trump won (you're a heartless piece of shit for wearing that safety pin!).

But anyway, I think my dad was willing to go the route of "fuck everyone, focus on family" because he had a really bad childhood and never felt that anyone was there for him. Fortunately he gave me a much better upbringing, which has made me much more inclined to feel generous towards the outside world.

We're getting complicated here.

Inevitable!

It's a tough subject; I've lost some sleep over it. Your dad and I have the same issue, then.

Another way to look at it might be: how optimistic are you about the potential for change (social and personal)? And are you responsible for anyone other than yourself? And, regardless of modern conceptions of political thought, are you attenuated to these questions for any particular reason (i.e., do you love fuzz because of sonics, or because it is heavily deployed in music with a particular kind of perspective)?

On an unrelated note: I have never seen your avatar and not thought it said 'poopvulture.'

Haha! I've looked at it plenty of times as well and wondered if I misspelled it when I signed up way back when. Shitbird 4 lyfe.

I've had impulses to turn away from it all recently, but I'd say they're for different reasons. For me it's the lack of compromise on anyone's part that's so frustrating—I feel like we're condemned to just repeat the cycle if we naively keep pursuing the end result of 100% realization of our agendas. Of course that's just the history of man, though. But yep, the horrible person that we've elected president, the situation we're facing—the right thing to do is to stand up to it, but I've felt so crushed by the abject failure of what I consider to be "rational thought" that I've felt like turning away and/or curling into a ball.

It's shitty that we encourage individualism but end up in clubs. I always go back to Ian MacKaye talking about starting hardcore as a way to just be yourself and fuck the rules, only to turn around and see that people took it and... created rules.

[D.o.S.]

It certainly seems a lot easier to pursue a life that is, however marginally, dedicated to making the world a more pleasant place for the folks that you can effect if you don't have children -- not in a "fuck everyone but my family way" but in a way that paints a divide between the very real dependence of the few over the tangential dependence of the many.

That manifests itself in a lot of different ways. Since we're talking about parents, mine have always been pretty moderate folks, but I remember when they went through a fairly subtle phase of being slightly more conservative when my brother and I were young/er. I don't think it's any coincidence that they've moved further to the left now that the two of us are "normal" functioning adults. It may also be that the general tone of politics in the 2000's have been a lot more 'serious' than the end of the previous millennium.

Just an observation from someone who doesn't have kids (which, obviously, is the least valuable insight into children there can be. Even though I was one, once.)

[vallaton]

i'm probably on the more "pc/liberal"-side of things, but the thing that frustrates me in the punk scene, is growing up and seeing how people i've thought to be rational and radical are just falling into these punk versions of mainstream attitudes and politics, and just shout about "being themselves" and "fuck the rules" and all this bullshit without understanding how their actions are a product of the same social structures that are in play with non-punx douchebags.

that or watching people kill themselves with drugs.

but i'm happy about the small number of close friends and people who are really smart and loving and awesome. and think the right way (TM).

[Strange Tales]

That's because punk is just as bad an echo chamber as everywhere else. Turns out humans just suck. Most of the scene is shouting "YEA IM FUCKING ALL ABOUT GENDER EQUALITY" but most of those people will go around and not follow a word of it when no one is looking. People want to look good to feel good.

I'm only 25 and have no horse in this race (yet?). I could see myself focusing more on kids and the economic side of things if I had to though. Shit, if I actually fuck up and bring some unfortunate humans into the world, I'd make sure I can give the best I can for them, only seems like my duty or obligation as a parent to provide what I can to make sure their life doesn't suck. Not like mine was terrible, I've grown up a pretty cushy life besides losing a parent young and the major depression stuff.

I don't really believe in the whole "blowing everything the fuck up" kind of ideology though. Call me selfish/lazy/whatever, but the world is what it is and I don't have the mental fortitude to try and malleate people into what I believe is a better human ethically/morally/what not. Maybe I'm missing the point here, cause I'm 25.

[coldbrightsunlight]

I'm not that old but I feel very conflicted about my belief in the evils of modern consumerist culture and my rampant consumerism. I fully believe in the idea of being happy with fewer things, but I really like things...

[vallaton]

I don't really believe in the whole "blowing everything the fuck up" kind of ideology though.

this seems to be more of a mainstream ideology though, lol. like, we've gone past the point of no return with global warming and it seems that we're still not ready to give a shit about the living conditions of people who have to be here after us.

[Strange Tales]

Yea that's why I wrote I don't have the mental fortitude to change peoples opinions. I can't stand talking to a brick wall that wants to say hard facts are "faked" because thats the only way they can support their viewpoints. Too many people I used to work with believe chemtrails are used for controlling the population and what not.

If I have kids I sure as hell hope they grow up to have some sort of critical thinking skills because it really looks the majority of my generation just skipped over that lesson.

[Chankgeez]

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