Baton Rouge, Minnesota, Dallas

[Invisible Man]

The fuck?

I know there are other threads out there that deal with this directly/indirectly, but...curious how all of this appears to ILFers outside the U.S., and to see if there's anything to be gained by finding it out. There's a lot of anger and fear here right now, and things are clearly escalating. (Quick summary for those who don't care to follow American news: white men have been inexplicably shooting/killing black men in public places for hundreds of years; police are doing this now in a way they claim is sanctioned by their procedures and policies; the vast majority of police have formed a 'blue wall' in solidarity with the fraternal/sororal order of police; snipers are now killing police during protests over the deaths of black men at the hands of said police.)

Also, want to acknowledge that there's nothing *new* here. We do have the technology, however, for citizens and passers-by to record and monitor this shit in a way that wasn't possible in Scottsboro, or for lynchings that happened in years past. I can't be alone in thinking that these acts of violence are pretty clear instances of modern lynching.

Since it seems inevitable that this will turn into a gun control thread: what else has to happen for some serious legislation/reform to come down? I don't see this slowing down in the next few months or weeks--'waiting it out' isn't really gonna work too well.

[Strange Tales]

So many things need reform. This shit is wild. This whole state of ignorance needs to end. Just shit man.

I still haven't really processed the Dallas shit yet because I woke up to reading about it. Really haven't fully understood the two prior shootings as well.

[Invisible Man]

Yeah, me neither (on understanding/taking it all in). But the one thing everyone seems to agree on is that this shit is unacceptable. I'm not a supporter of the police, but damn...citizen snipers are picking off people in uniform? That's scary as fuck, and makes me want to hide out in my basement.

And, obviously, cops killing people for what appears to be no good reason is straight-up evil, though not surprising.

[Invisible Man]

...Part of not understanding the past shootings, too, is that I'm unwilling to watch the videos. Looking at real-life executions will wreck your day, I think. Just having the news already hits hard enough.

[Jwar]

You reap what you sow. You cannot oppress people, murder them, break laws and protect and serve (which that shit is a fucking joke anyway. Protect and serve what?).

I respect the officers I know and I'm saddened by all this senseless shit that's happen. The people of this country can only take so much though. We are so close to people being pushed passed the breaking point. Remember the LA Riots?? Yea, I can see that shit happening again but on a wider scale.

What sucks is that racism does exist in the police force and is ok with small city departments. Think I'm lying? Think again. I've heard it, experienced and think it's fucking bullshit. Rednecks are pieces of shit. White trash redneck fucking scum bags.

I'm white, and I hate fucking white people sometimes. It's not just a white issue, but man...how many times does this shit have to happen for fucks sake?

[Invisible Man]

I don't delight in any kind of violence, and it's terrible to see people get hurt or lose their lives, but there's a message that's being sent that needs to be sent. The manner is unacceptable, but...so are the events that lead up to it ('eye for for eye' is antique bullshit, but at least I understand it).

This is just coming back around. Newtonian physics...opposite reaction is not yet close to equal, however. I'm (mostly) white, and identify as such because I look white. But even the white folks who are supporting BLM don't understand our own complicity with the problem. As in, by existing, we contribute to the same kinds of problems that have been at play since the 16th century.

Also, slightly unrelated: when mass shooters are white, we talk about mental health. When they're black or brown, we talk about race. Mmhmm.

[aedes]

Yeah things are getting really weird too. We played an outdoor show on the outer banks (NC) on the 4th, and these rednecks walked by carrying these huge american flags, and the don't tread on me flags. They were yelling "Join your local militia!" "We are the oathkeepers" "The constitution is under attack!" "Your rights are being violated!" And I'm thinking, these guys have no idea. They're not getting murdered at traffic stops. They are living in some weird fantasy.

[Invisible Man]

For what they're worth, consider the source, ymmv, &c. Perception is everything...there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics (stole that last bit from Mark Twain).

[Strange Tales]

I think white people just want to be apart of all the terrible shit in the world, so now they have a persecution complex.

[HighDeaf1080p]

I really hate it when Charles Manson is right about anything...but it does appear that Helter Skelter has arrived. *sigh*

Though not all of this is racially charged. I have seen far too many upper middle class white kids being gunned down at traffic stops in the last few years as well. Camera phones are a bitch for cops.

The real issue at play here, is the incorrect perception by the entire police culture in this country that failure to show a cop the respect he feels he deserves is an executable offense.

I mean, the fricken mayor of Dallas comes out for a press conference and complains to the public that they don't feel very appreciated?!!?? Seriously? He's going with that crybaby shit right now? We can TELL they don't feel appreciated...cuz they gun down and murder people on a regular basis to prove it.

[MEC]

I found this Washington Post database both interesting and surprising:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... ings-2016/

Apparently, black people aren't the only ones being shot by the police at an astounding rate.
While the proportion (15% of the population/25% of total fatalities) leans towards more blacks being
killed, whites are being killed at a rate of 1.33 per day. Also, men make up 95% of the total which to
me, seems extremely disproportionate.

I understand the reasons behind the anger in the black communities and I understand that the media
subsists on advertising which requires page views but two fatal shootings by the police in one day isn't
anything new or out of the ordinary or unbelievable.

IN AMERICA, 2.72 PEOPLE ARE KILLED BY THE POLICE EVERYDAY.

I think the question needs to be "Why are so many people being shot by the police?" not "Why are so
many black people being shot by the police?"

Another question to ask is if the people that shot the police officers in Dallas were part of a "well regulated militia"
would their actions be considered within the law and protected by the 2nd amendment? Who decides what
means are necessary to maintain "security of a free state"?

[HighDeaf1080p]

I also love the fact that gun violence numbers being used to promote gun control INCLUDE the VAST number of police shootings in their data.

Oh...and the police and military are the well regulated militia being referred to the 2nd amendment as necessary. They are the REASON the people's right to keep and bear arms must not be infringed.

[echoraven]

It's a cluster fuck of confusion.

Every shooting involving a police officer and a black suspect is lumped into "racism" and whored by those who make their living or political gain by fanning the flames so we end up with Michael Brown who roughed up a shop keeper and may have attempted to take a officers gun lumped with Eric Gardner who sold untaxed cigarettes. One was probably justified and one was a horrible tragedy.

We now have a President who does not bother to wait for such nonsense as "evidence" or "truth" before rendering a verdict, which is why it should be a surprise to no one that someone decided to murder police officers a few hours after the President's speech.

The senseless slayings of the likes of Eric Gardner and Philando Castile become diluted in a sea of race baiting.

[Invisible Man]

It's a cluster fuck of confusion.

Every shooting involving a police officer and a black suspect is lumped into "racism" and whored by those who make their living or political gain by fanning the flames so we end up with Michael Brown who roughed up a shop keeper and may have attempted to take a officers gun lumped with Eric Gardner who sold untaxed cigarettes. One was probably justified and one was a horrible tragedy.

We now have a President who does not bother to wait for such nonsense as "evidence" or "truth" before rendering a verdict, which is why it should be a surprise to no one that someone decided to murder police officers a few hours after the President's speech.

The senseless slayings of the likes of Eric Gardner and Philando Castile become diluted in a sea of race baiting.

"Truth" is a fluid concept, though. Don't disagree, but everything rests on an agenda. Very little rests on 'fact.'

I also love the fact that gun violence numbers being used to promote gun control INCLUDE the VAST number of police shootings in their data.

Oh...and the police and military are the well regulated militia being referred to the 2nd amendment as necessary. They are the REASON the people's right to keep and bear arms must not be infringed.

What you say makes sense. But, again, I am skeptical of all data (I am, among other things, a data scientist, sadly). We do know that people are freaking out, that media coverage will froth people into a rage/panic, and that the sense is that things are escalating.

Anyway, I agree with the idea that we need to ask the larger question. But people are kinda pissed off, and asking the question hasn't gotten us anywhere--there needs to be an answer in the form of policy change or significant shift. Not trying to hone in on the word choice, but I get bummed out by the 'there needs to be a space for conversation' kind of rhetorical move that I hear some people making (not you, HighDeaf). There needs to be something solid put in place, because--whether or not this is trending up or down in immaterial. Snipers killing cops in public is fucking crazy.

[Pepe]

curious how all of this appears to ILFers outside the U.S.

Do you want an honest opinion? For me as a German and European it was like "Oh, another shot man in the USA. Again. Well, now where's the news?" and I clicked on the next headline. I don't really care about it anymore. God bless America, the craziest part of the world. 4-year-old kids accidentally shoot themselves or their siblings, because some dumbfucks take their guns everywhere to protect their family. Some policemen act like maniac sheriffs in the earlier American days - first shoot, then ask. If I don't like your face, I'll smash it. Show me your license and I'll shoot you, because you could draw your weapon instead, and I know you'll do it, 'cause you're black. And so on, and so on.

I really believe that there are some territories where you have to have a weapon at hand, because the police/ambulance has to drive four hours to arrive at your place. But do you really need a weapon in Dallas? In the city? On the street? To feel safe, because another man could have a weapon as well? Hello?

No European could ever understand the American logic of the need to own a gun. Or at least only a few.