Fat shaming, or being a judgemental prick face

[Eivind August]

How about the right to get paid more to do the same job?

http://archive.is/V4BEB
+
http://archive.is/fJJKM

TL;DR
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjWBXbGVyQU[/youtube]

Question of definition. Why are male dominated jobs paid way more than female dominated? Sure, there are problems with not defining what "the wage gap" means, but there is still de facto a big difference in what men and women earn. If anything, it points to stuff like men more likely to have higher positions, male dominated jobs have a higher pay on average and women more likely to work part time. No, not a result of individual evil men laughing all the way to the bank, but instead of dismissing this as just circumstantial, let's just spend a little time thinking about WHY these differences exist.

While I agree with this being the case in some industries at this particular moment in time, things seem to be changing. Well, at least over here in socialist wonderland. In our (my) generation, women generally take higher education than men, and do better/get better grades. A majority of young doctors, for instance, seem to be women. I don't believe in revolutions - change takes time, but it is coming gradually.

That being said, change wouldn't happen if someone didn't point out the problems to begin with. The super PC-people are annoying, but I do like that these issues are being discussed more and more as a result of the screaming radicals. It (hopefully) leads to more rational discussion down the line, and in a few generations, things might have changed for the better. Just look at the difference between women in their twenties and their grandmothers. That's a pretty huge leap in a couple of generations.

I am not saying we should ignore issues because it's all gonna work itself out eventually. Women do face more harassment than men, as has been pointed out. I'm just saying that they're facing a lot less than a mere fifty years ago, and that the process is still going on.

I'm not sure if this post is pointless or not.

[UglyCasanova]

Nah. You're right. I just wanted to post a gif.

[rustywire]

Who says patriarchy has to be institutional? I don't know exactly what genre of feminism I mainly subscribe to, but most of it is dealing with some kind of structural issues, and not institutional. It becomes kinda philosophical when we start discussing free choice, for instance: is it free choice that leads children of parents with academic background to go into academics themselves? This is true for both high tuition countries like the US and for free education like Sweden, so obviously something else than free choice comes into play. Maybe, it's upbringing, social contexts and what is expected that comes into play?

"In patriarchy, women do what they are told or they face savage consequences" let me just point out a few things, that I've seen random women being harassed for without provoking it: hair in armpits, saying no to having sex with a stranger, saying yes to having sex with a stranger, hair on legs, being lesbian (I guess being homosexual for any gender is subject to harassment), being drunk, being dressed too "slutty". I don't know, I suppose I could say other things, but to say any of these things are a problem for dudes (except the gay thing) to the same extent is being kinda naive. Yes: not as bad as Saudi Arabia, but you can't compare yourself with the worst and be happy about it really. So it's not about "specific rights" between the genders, but as I said in the beginning: it's about what is expected and accepted by society

Institutions, by definition, are structured systems. Patriarchy is a structured system.
IDK why people do the things they do, some children follow in parents footsteps and others do not... some people put ketchup on hotdogs


What you describe is overly judgmental rudeness and/or harassment. Even lewd behavior. One doesn't need to be a woman to have horrible things said to them, assumptions made by strangers for no good reason! If someone doesn't like the look of your face or the color of your sneakers they may feel entitled to speak on it while you just wanna be left alone. When someone wants to mess with you they reach for low-hanging fruit, whatever is going to needle the soft spot. Trolling Humanity 101. I know women suffer a lot of bullshit in life, that much is obvious. The thing is we all do, with variations on a theme. We are all victims of circumstance. However, we are not all victims of malicious intent every time we take offense. Taking everything personal is the sign of an immature, socially defunct mind. Looking to point blame and invent scapegoats too. In the west we have easier lives than literal billions of people. Billions.

[deep breath]

NSFW: show

I can most definitely compare myself with the worst (and best) and realize how fortunate I am to be who I am, where I am in spite of my own experience, shortcomings and petty grievances. I'm grateful because things can always get a lot worse, very quickly. Life is valleys & peaks and I've been afforded the kind of perspective one never requests.
Nearly a decade ago I suffered a work-related injury which robbed me of 30 months from my prime earning years. I was in constant pain, in addition to dealing with an apathetic insurance company who sent me to dubious in-pocketnetwork *specialists* 45min-hr away when better doctors were 10min south. My recovery was hindered every step of the way. Lost paperwork, delayed treatment, more lost paperwork, wrong information, no callbacks, no concern, attitude, systematic harassment to make me give up and go away.

Society washes its hands of you when it thinks you are more trouble than worth. I had a lot of time to think and get angry at the world. I bitterly fought through it with the support of a loving, nurturing family who were the only ones to stand by my side. Music was the other sanctuary. It kept my sanity intact, without a doubt...providing a blow-off valve for that pressure cooker inside. Also keeps my horizons expanding.
Got 95% better but to this day I have numb pinkies and goofy rigormortis ringfingers, other issues with muscular headaches, sensitivity to fluorescent lighting. I struggle to play guitar. I work around my limitations, because I'm excited to hear how good I can sound. I could blame all sorts of variables, like how no good deed goes unpunished. Instead it set me on the path where I transition from listener to player, become a better person while giving me a profound well of inspiration to draw from. Because being angry at the world is toxic, gotta get that energy out. Nothing good comes from being angry at everything you cant control.

As I rebounded from my own struggle, I was fortunate to have 1.5 good years to clear my head before lifechanging tragedy struck again, this time in loved ones. The suffering they've endured has made my own seem minor by comparison. Watching strong women lose slow battles to terminal illness, one mentally, one physically...while being powerless to fix things really puts everything in perspective. Well I've lost another 6 years and counting, haven't had a day off since 2013. Because I've gotta be good to my fam, who gave me more than I could ask for, without giving me everything. Better to make the ones you care about feel a little more comfortable, feeling greater comfort yourself. It's infectious. I try to remain jovial, positive & appreciate or navigate the negative little things because life is short, fragile.

Accepting duality is acknowledging reality. The reality is we aren't in control of things we cant control. When someone becomes fully triggered, hysterical over the most minor of offenses where does one go from there? That isn't how functional adults behave. People cope with trauma differently, but being a grown-up means behaving like the better person you want to be. Being that change you want to see in the world, by example without announcing it at every opportunity. When you want to do something it gets done if it's possible.

Everyone suffers pain, mistreatment...but actions speak louder than words. However, to dismiss someone else's experience by saying "oh you don't suffer the same identical trauma" and hyperbolizing, prioritizing one's own reeks of sheltered narcissism. Naive indeed.

TL;DR
Society doesn't have to listen to your feelings. Just your vote. Maybe.
You don't have to listen to society's feelings, just the laws.
If you say/do something in public then you open yourself up to scrutiny, fair or not.
Count your blessings.

[rustywire]

How about the right to get paid more to do the same job?

http://archive.is/V4BEB
+
http://archive.is/fJJKM

TL;DR
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjWBXbGVyQU[/youtube]

Question of definition. Why are male dominated jobs paid way more than female dominated? Sure, there are problems with not defining what "the wage gap" means, but there is still de facto a big difference in what men and women earn. If anything, it points to stuff like men more likely to have higher positions, male dominated jobs have a higher pay on average and women more likely to work part time. No, not a result of individual evil men laughing all the way to the bank, but instead of dismissing this as just circumstantial, let's just spend a little time thinking about WHY these differences exist.

I don't know which jobs or fields you speak of, but it isn't a matter of discrimination, it's a matter of user discretion.
People who go to school for STEM typically earn more than people who major in gender studies, because difficult and/or dangerous jobs with demand for highly competent labor pay more than unskilled or cushy busywork gigs. Choices by individuals. If women are more likely to work part time it is probably because they want manage the rest of their time how they see fit and seek the flexibility afforded by such an arrangement. Or because they're working for a company who rigidly controls hours so they don't have to pay every employee health benefits. Common with corporate retail sales, an industry dominated by women.

Mom didn't graduate college but she worked 25 years, locally for the state in a full time, year round clerical position she was passionate about, breaking the 6 figure income *ceiling* prior to retiring. Not an easy job. Not a job she could call out sick from once a week and come in the next day like it never happened. Her dedication and decisions lead to her becoming one of the best-compensated in state, to widespread acknowledgement of proficiency and integrity at her position. Her salary increased 300% over her career and she outearned more men & women peers than not. Because of choices, because of performance, productivity, merit. Sex has nothing to very-little to do with it.

[rustywire]

How about the right to get paid more to do the same job?

http://archive.is/V4BEB
+
http://archive.is/fJJKM

TL;DR
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjWBXbGVyQU[/youtube]

Question of definition. Why are male dominated jobs paid way more than female dominated? Sure, there are problems with not defining what "the wage gap" means, but there is still de facto a big difference in what men and women earn. If anything, it points to stuff like men more likely to have higher positions, male dominated jobs have a higher pay on average and women more likely to work part time. No, not a result of individual evil men laughing all the way to the bank, but instead of dismissing this as just circumstantial, let's just spend a little time thinking about WHY these differences exist.

While I agree with this being the case in some industries at this particular moment in time, things seem to be changing. Well, at least over here in socialist wonderland. In our (my) generation, women generally take higher education than men, and do better/get better grades. A majority of young doctors, for instance, seem to be women. I don't believe in revolutions - change takes time, but it is coming gradually.

That being said, change wouldn't happen if someone didn't point out the problems to begin with. The super PC-people are annoying, but I do like that these issues are being discussed more and more as a result of the screaming radicals. It (hopefully) leads to more rational discussion down the line, and in a few generations, things might have changed for the better. Just look at the difference between women in their twenties and their grandmothers. That's a pretty huge leap in a couple of generations.

I am not saying we should ignore issues because it's all gonna work itself out eventually. Women do face more harassment than men, as has been pointed out. I'm just saying that they're facing a lot less than a mere fifty years ago, and that the process is still going on.

I'm not sure if this post is pointless or not.

Pretty good post, but to address the huge'd text:


People
Face
Harassment

The identity politics victim-narrative is a tiresome scam.

[rustywire]

I have a feeling you're into Milo Yiannopoulos.

I think you meant rusty. I personally find him a bit much. Also Christian, so.

Now there's an understatement. Milo is entertaining but more casually self-fellating, lewd & obnoxious...than I care for.
I do know that's part of his shtick but wonder if that's who he really is off camera. Cant pretend like I know.
It is kind of refreshing though, to actually hear someone talk about unflattering topics & realities, defend free speech even when your politics don't align.

And he did provoke those lunatic student *protestors* who smeared their faces with fake blood to disrupt his free speech campus tour or whatever. Hard for me to not become at least somewhat endeared after laughing that hard. I am a fan of the British sense of humor but taking him in doses is preferred.

[fcknoise]

First of all, what happened to you and your loved ones sounds terrible. I'm really sorry about that, but glad that you've gotten better

Second, it's mustard on hot dogs that is the grossest of options. I dislike ketchup on literally anything but hot dogs. Then again, I stopped eating meat a few months ago so I don't have to concern myself with that anymore.

And the point that the west has a higher standard of living than the rest of the world is absolutely correct. Sweden is often mentioned as one of the most equal countries too, why do I complain? Because, fact is that there are still differences that needs to be addressed, like the ones I mentioned. One of the worst things is the rape statistics, and how easy it actually is getting away with it. Victim blaming leads women not to press charges, and at least here in Sweden loads of people who actually go to court never get sentenced to anything, with reasons like "she didn't say no", "they had sex at a different occasion" or "she had said earlier that she liked it rough". Those are just three examples I know I've seen in the papers here.

Similar problems are for guys too though. I'm not a fan of the kind of masculinity a lot of us are expected to conform to. I like Eivind, think that things are slowly getting better, and I do believe that people become more equal is a sign of modernity, and the future is bright in my eyes. But I believe that being aware of behavior that contributes to the old norms is a good way to push that change forward.

As to your second post:
One pretty clear example is how atrociously low pay nurses and teachers have. Being a nurse is definitely a hard job, by a lot of standards. And teachers have one of the, in my opinion, the most important job in any society. The thing with women making the choice to take care of the kids/manage home things is also part of the issue. Like why do they make that choice? I don't believe in free choice, so I guess that this is the point where we have the most different opinion, and hence our different conclusions on stuff.

I don't know, I feel like I'm just rambling on at this point. I guess I fit into the category of "super annoying PC person", but I guess I can live with that

[Eivind August]

I like Eivind

This is harassment!

[fcknoise]

I like Eivind

This is harassment!

Missed a comma haha. Doesn't make it any less true

[Eivind August]

Pretty good post, but to address the huge'd text:


People
Face
Harassment

The identity politics victim-narrative is a tiresome scam.

Thanks, I like your posts as well, though I'm not sure that I agree with everything you say.

As for the statistic, I find it interesting, though I'm not a huge fan of statistics. Here are some more I found during the minute I spent thoroughly researching the subject:





So, women get harassed in different, potentially more harmful ways? I dunno.

[Eivind August]

I like Eivind

This is harassment!

Missed a comma haha. Doesn't make it any less true

[Mudfuzz]

I just wanted to say that the more you guys have rambled back and forth you have created a complete incoherent pointlessness

[gnomethrone]

Yeah the point of this thread is that big girls are beautiful.

[psychic vampire.]

Whoa, post got deleted

[Jwar]

Man....so my point of this thread has been thoroughly missed by some here.

You are guys are nuts.