something about not being white and loving fuzz and noise --

[psychic vampire.]

Unfortunately, it feels like if punk, metal, goth, industrial, or whatever once had a shred of originality amongst its fans/participants, today these scenes are much more about fitting oneself into a social clique, which requires adherence to a set of rules. Blah, blah, blah, I know, but it would have been nice to expereince more openness in the music that I love and less people dismissing each other or whatever for being the wrong kind of person or wearing the wrong kind of shit. I mean patches look great, and wearing all black looks great, too, I get it, but uh?

Yeah off topic

[casecandy]

You know... I don't think the metal scene is more or less racist than any other music scene.

I think it's a hell of a lot less politically correct than other music scenes, and when you couple that with instances of genuine racism like Anselmo there, or the NSBM movement, or whatever you want to point to, it sure looks like racism. But is the average metalhead racist?

TBH, punk is a hell of a lot more racist than metal in my admittedly limited experience.

It's like when Bill Hicks asked, "There's an asshole sitting next to you at a game. Is he high... or is he drunk?"

"There's a racist next to you at the show. Is he doom... or is he punk?"

[casecandy]

Is he Case Candy? #SelfBurn #NotReallyTho

[Chankgeez]

OP... this wasn't our intent

When do you think the OP will return to read this thread?

[Cisco]

I'm a beaner from the barrio.
I look a little more Euro than my sibs though. (Spanish mom)
Grew up on soul and funk.
Those are still my first loves.
Rap was still an extension of funk
and there was no hardcore aspect to it.
(It was just around the corner, though.)
If and when we and when wanted to get aggro,
we threw some metal in the tape deck.

East LA, Southeast Dago, North Orange....it's still a thing.
Puro Stoners....¿Y que, puto?

[goroth]

I feel like this conversation degraded into a bunch of white people (myself very much included) counting up the black guys in the metal scene and saying, "See! There's black guys in the metal scene! It's not awkward anymore!" LOL. OP... this wasn't our intent

I think you misread things. Posting the few examples of non white males playing metal exemplifies the problems metal has with all thing non white and non male, and is not an attempt to prove that metal is diverse in western societies.

I'd be interested as to where it fits in the sociocultural spectrum in countries with good scenes, like chile, Brazil, Japan etc. Is it truer to its self image of being for outsiders, or does like the Japanese version of the white male (whoever that might be) also play metal there?

[oscillateur]

Well, Japan is not a very diverse society, genetically. So for all types of music, Japanese musicians basically just look Japanese. I could ask friends who're into metal (I can talk about the experimental scene but metal's out of my field of expertise) but I doubt it's any different. There are probably more female musicians than in the US/Europe though.

[Iommic Pope]

This makes me want to post that Japanese hardcore/pop stuff, in response to goroth's question, but you can go down that road on your own, sir.

Good point though.

Girls in heavy music are starting to make more ground but are still subject to the old sex appeal>talent arguments as well as sometimes blatantly having to use their sexuality to sell their band.
See every shitty metal magazine's yearly roundup of women in metal for examples and sexploitation.

[goroth]

Well, Japan is not a very diverse society, genetically. So for all types of music, Japanese musicians basically just look Japanese. I could ask friends who're into metal (I can talk about the experimental scene but metal's out of my field of expertise) but I doubt it's any different. There are probably more female musicians than in the US/Europe though.

What I mean is there is a certain person who is a metalhead. Probably looks like me. May or may not behave like me. Anyways. But that is an Anglo-centric profile. I'm just wondering who the stereotypical metalhead dude is in non-white majority societies. Like, driving a Volvo and drinking Norrlands guld, are Japanese metaleros driving old Nissans and chugging Asahi? or is it a different sort of person entirely who is the stereotypical listener?

Not important questions. Just... Mildly interesting.

I think metal in a global sense is much closer to its outsider/inclusive ethos. Except if you aren't male.

But yeah Iommi, shit is slowly getting better. At least in some respects. The last few years I've seen a lot more girls and diverse ages at shows, which is good. Even on stage. Admittedly that's only two women as compared to a lot of sausage, but still. Any improvement is better than nothing. except for those women in metal features. Which only serve to confirm that there is till a long way to go!

[oscillateur]

Well, for what it's worth, the proportion of female artists in the electronic/experimental/noisy scene is also quite low. Both in Tokyo and in Paris, for example. Not zero of course, but far from 50%...

Anyway, I'll ask my friends about the population at local metal concerts next time I have an occasion. I might be surprised .

[Iommic Pope]

I'd have to agree with gor, things are getting better.
Incrementally.
But all improvements are welcome.

Coolest thing I saw recently at a show was when Conan last out and instead of the usual contingent of miserable old bearded pricks, death staring the stage and holding invisible oranges in the most grim dad rock way possible (don't get me wrong there were a few of us there) there were actually a lot of younger folk and, surprisingly, younger women.
There were a few girls out in a group, just drinking, having a good time, no boyfriends, and they actually got real pissy and nearly started a fight when some band of douchey, vested hipster bros started getting a bit too physical with everyone in sight. It was fucking rad and I was genuinely pleased that these women had not fallen into the typical metal chick stereotype I grew up with that was basically, "I'm tiny and I wear corsets out, but when guys hit on me I find the biggest meathead in a band I can attach myself to to beat the shit out of them because I get some sick satisfaction out of that."
Maybe that's just Brisbane, but it's such a relief to see that shit is finally over.

[casecandy]

Doom is attracting female fans left and right. Look at all the women making awesome doom metal, I mean, Wata in Boris is an absolute goddess, then there's Kylesa, Windhand, SubRosa, Electric Wizard. When the music is legitimately not a boy's club, the audience will follow.

P.S. The guy from Conan is my FB friend and he's awesome and I felt like bragging about it LOL

[D.o.S.]

Important to note re: doom that bands who would have packed 50 people into a club in 2006 are now packing in 500 people, so from a numbers game there will definitely be more women even if the gender percentages remain the same. And that's true of every 'niche-y' music genre, I think.

[Chankgeez]

The original line-up of Warhorse had a chick in it and she was awesome. I don't think she ever recorded with them though.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWV7Cctmbc[/youtube]

[goroth]

Doom is attracting female fans left and right. Look at all the women making awesome doom metal, I mean, Wata in Boris is an absolute goddess, then there's Kylesa, Windhand, SubRosa, Electric Wizard. When the music is legitimately not a boy's club, the audience will follow.

P.S. The guy from Conan is my FB friend and he's awesome and I felt like bragging about it LOL

Doom is still a boys club.

As is holding a guitar or a set of drumsticks in general.