Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece



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Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby VREEEEVROOOOOW » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:22 am

I want to record my band, but my band is a bit odd, and we don't have any recording equipment. We are planning on applying for municipal funding, but that might not work out. Who knows. Anyway, I'd really appreciate any advice in terms of what equipment to get, and how to use it.

OK so my band sounds sort of like this: https://www.facebook.com/galleriznedi/v ... =3&theater
That's not great recording quality, obviously, but just to give you an idea.

So it's:
* A trumpet player (who has a pretty good mic for the trumpet, which runs into a 6-track/4 bus mixer, aux send/return to/from a zoom ms, into a guitar amp or pa, whatever we have the luxury of using.
* A drummer (albeit a different one from that video) with a bass/snare/floor tom/hi-hat/ride/crash set-up,
* A guitarist/vocalist (that's me!) which runs a bunch of pedals into a JC-40, and sometimes screams a bit, without a microphone.

Basically we wanna use room mics if possible, and avoid a close-mic dry sound. Our sound is pretty reverb-y, saturated, and open. Vocals should be barely noticeable, and sound like they're from far away, or like they're recorded in a snowstorm or something. The guitar should pretty much bury everything at full saturation, and otherwise it should be LOUD with the trumpet cracking through by virtue of residing mostly in a higher frequency range. And there's gonna be lots of guitar feedback. For the drums: everything should ring out a lot. No kick blanket, loud crashing cracked cymbals, &c. I guess the kick could/should be close-mic'd.

We'd like to do analogue recording, but probably digital mixing. Preferably 4 tracks, because, well, it's cheaper than 8. We wanna set everything up & play the entire tracks live, no overdubs. Basically we wanna capture what we sound like, not "produce a record" or whatever.

Any help appreciated. Feel free to ask for any clarification or whatever.
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby MechaGodzilla » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:08 am

i would try and get a zoom r16 or similar, record into that w/mics/DI/whatever *AND* use the built in condensers to get some room sound.
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby Chankgeez » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:16 am

I have no idea how you'd do that. :idk:

I think you should still close mic shit so you have the option of mixing in some of that. :snax:

Sounds great! :!!!:
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby VREEEEVROOOOOW » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:19 am

@mecha
Thanks for the rec!

@chank
I was thinking that maybe we could use the line-out for the JC40 and the trumpet mixer for that purpose.

@all
By the way: mic recommendations welcome too.
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby crochambeau » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:58 am

I've always had a soft spot for setting up a pair of microphones where a pair of speakers in a room would be in relation to my listening position. I recorded a friend's band (of somewhat similar challenges) many years ago direct to two track cassette in that manner with a pair of Sony F-96 microphones (a dynamic type bundled in with early tape recorders). I recall the listening experience to be pleasurable, though somewhat light on low end. I cannot review it, because I simply handed the tape to my friend when finished (maybe 25 years ago? hahaha).

Sounds like the trumpet player is bringing a mixer into the fray? Four buss will mate with four track quite well, so long as the trumpet player is not in need of most of the channels to sculpt their sound...

With regards to mics, I mention the Sony mics above to illustrate you should just grab anything and go with it, improving selection where the result does not satisfy.

For room stuff I prefer omni dynamics over cardioid dynamics. Condensers are nice as well, so long as you're equipped to meet their power supply needs. Save the cardioid mics for close micing (if needed), maybe plant a speaker in front of the bass drum, though that can spill into education regarding level and impedance matching/etc if you've got especially loose or tight compliances at work. Can still be loads of fun and fill out the bottom.

PZM or boundary microphones can also be used to great effect.

If I were to be dropped onto a desert island and could only have a handful of microphones I would go with:
ould
pair small diaphragm condenser (omni)
pair large diaphragm dynamic (cardioid)
pair medium/large diaphragm condenser (preferably multi, but cardioid would do)
pair of dynamic (omni)
some PZM, contact, misc transducers to play with.

In more or less that order of preference, but anything goes. I also have yet to use a ribbon microphone in my travels, so I'm sure that list will read completely differently at some point in time.
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby VREEEEVROOOOOW » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:09 pm

@chrochambeau
We have a mixer yeah, but it's only 2 XLR, and he uses one for trumpet mic, which is what's then sent to the zoom ms, back to the mixer, and to his amp.

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll do some research.
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby ognoy » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:13 pm

Come to Bergen and I'll record your band for free. ;)
Sounds like a fun a challenge.
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby VREEEEVROOOOOW » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:36 am

I checked our rehearsal space, and apparently what we already have to work with is two Sennheiser e835s & a AKG D5. Which is... not ideal. But maybe not entirely dreadful if we get a ribbon mic as well? Oh, I don't know. TIAS, I suppose.

@ognoy That's seriously intriguing to me. But unfortunately, it'd be really expensive to get there. At least for three unemployed, broke, punks. It's 'cos you need minipris Trondheim -> Oslo, and then Oslo -> Bergen, so it's a double whammy times three.
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby ognoy » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:21 am

VREEEEVROOOOOW wrote:I checked our rehearsal space, and apparently what we already have to work with is two Sennheiser e835s & a AKG D5. Which is... not ideal. But maybe not entirely dreadful if we get a ribbon mic as well? Oh, I don't know. TIAS, I suppose.


So what are you recording into? Cassette 4-track? Laptop and an interface?
None of the mics you mention is ideal for room mics, but could probably be ok for close micing.
Do you have any friends with mics that you could borrow?

4 tracks isn't a lot for a 3-piece with vocals, but if a had to limit myself to 4 tracks I would in theory(hard to say without actually hearing the sound sources/room/etc) do this:

Track 1: Room(mono). Would prefer some kind of condenser with an omni-figure. Would also work as vocal mic.
Track 2: Drums. You can easily get a cool drum sound with only 1 track, but it kind of depends on the mic. Dynamic omni-mics sound really good for this, set up as a kit/dick mic.
Track 3: Guitar. Close micing of amp. Any mic will work.
Track 4: Trumpet. Would probably go direct out the the mixer the trumpet player is using, but I would also use an unmiced amp for having it present in the room.
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby coldbrightsunlight » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:47 am

^ that setup is exactly what I was going to suggest with a 4 track. Will require some tweaking but that's a good way to have a first stab that gets some of the room sound but gives you mixing options.
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby ognoy » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:56 am

It's really important to spend some time to get the room-mic great. Adjusting volumes, moving gear around the room, moving the mic to where it sounds best, etc. :)
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby dubkitty » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:36 am

for drums i like to fly two mics over/around the kit, one between the snare and the kick drum to pick them up and one (or two ideally) over the top to capture the cymbals and toms. it works well in a decently live room. it's going to be hard to capture the drums with a single mic without losing a lot of the subtle aspects and textures, especially because an omnidirectional mic is RIGHT OUT. use a small (3-4 IN/1-2 OUT) mixer and sum to a mono output. you're not going to get a massive 90s kick sound, though you can pull it forward with judicious EQ. parametric would probably be the best bet.
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby lumena » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:43 pm

I think you might want to take a moment and watch the film American Epic. It's on a lot streaming places. It documents how musicians used a one mic direct recording system to record most of the music we have from the early 20th century. They go into some depth about the idea of using just one mic and placing musicians in various places in relation to it. My 2 cents is record very simply perhaps even in mono (gasp)

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and if that doesn't satisfy then add tracks as overdubs. It would be a simple way to get the energy of the music out and you can really feel the interactions between you all.

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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby dubkitty » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:57 pm

music of the early 20C was much less sonically demanding, though. a bluegrass band around one mic is a lot more doable than a loud electric ensemble with extended frequency range and dynamics. not to say it couldn't work, but it would take a LOT of whatever the audio equivalent is to "shot blocking" in film. "OK, move 6 inches that way...let's try it again."
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Re: Advice for recording a somewhat abnormal three piece

Postby chromandre » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:25 pm

it sounds to me like you might try something as simple as a zoom h2n (4x condenser mics records in HQ wavs) dump that into a computer for minimal mixing editing, send that to someone to master
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