16 sec. delay clones/workalikes

[D.o.S.]

so coy. Any other details?

[shikawkee]

so coy. Any other details?

Not being coy, I thought it was pretty well known. It's a PCM42-inspired delay (with the original designer, Gary Hall) that will
have the front end preamp, 20 seconds of delay (and maybe more) and reverse. It will be released in conjunction with a respected manufacturer
but we still have a ways to go. This Covid-19 stuff ain't helping productivity. I was hoping for NAMM 2021 but now who knows.

[codetocontra]

Intriguing

[Dowi]

Anyway, Kent is looking into whether he can cook something up for me as well now. We'll see, I'm not in a rush.

Our unit will be hifi. Just not soon <g>.

2021, the year of frippertronics

[zoooombiex]

FWIW, the 16SDD reissue can also do time-stretching, and can do pretty much everything the original can, though the workflow is sometimes different. They are a bit cheaper than the original 16SDD

The maneco doesn't do time-stretching, neither does Blooper (though it does other fx)

Out of curiosity, what about the Blooper layout would make you need a midi interface?

[chromandre]

Blooper still has 6 empty slots for added loop effects. Crossing fingers for time stretch.

[oscillofuzz]

I really feel this thread, albeit for slightly different reasons. Contrary to some I used to mostly be in it for the always-listening part so you could retroactively decide to loop/repeat something interesting you had just played while improvising. For these reasons over the years I've bought a 16SDD Reissue with the original footswitch, a Pigtronix Echolution 2 Ultra Pro on which I had to downgrade the firmware (due to a bug in later firmware disabling always listening even in that specific mode) and an Expedition Electronics 60 Second Delay. On the first and the last, I really miss the option of tap tempo, and on the Echolution I just kinda get lost in the extreme tweakability and preset storing etc. that the digital realm has to offer (this is what I fear would also happen if I get a Blooper; not that I can afford one right now anyway because I've already spent money on other stuff).

For what Eivind wants, I have used analog delays before to get great sounding lofi degrading loops going, but the drawback of this is that AFAIK no analog delay pedal can go beyond ~2 seconds, so the available loop time is very limited. For an example check out the beginning of this song below: the intro bit with just piano chords, guitar swells and an evolving bass line. The last iteration of the intro's bass line (G# A# B G D# that starts around 1:52) is looped for a long time (like 3,5 minutes) by an analog delay pedal as a reminder of the intro while the core part of the song starts up post-intro. Due to the degrading nature of analog delay repeats, the bass line devolves in to clicking and popping noises, essentially becoming a percussion-like embellishment to the drum track over a newly introduced sustained G# drone as bass line, that is eventually reinforced by additional glitchy noise tracks until the G# drone turns into a driving ostinato and takes over all bass duties by 5:29, and the drums also amp up around there.


In a a way, it really is too bad no one has tried to cram like 20 or 30 of those reissued Xvive (IIRC) BBD chips in 1 pedal yet to try and get an analog delay pedal on the market with 4 or 5 (or more) seconds of delay time

[qersty]

Yoo really cool tune! Got some major frippery going on there! Are the guitars looped too?

[Christophe]

FWIW, the 16SDD reissue can also do time-stretching, and can do pretty much everything the original can, though the workflow is sometimes different. They are a bit cheaper than the original 16SDD

The main difference -which has been discussed a lot- is that the 16sdd reissue is not always listening... Which is precisely why the original one is so incredible.

So far, I've found very few pedals that have this always-listening feature:

-original 16sdd
-Manecco sweet 16
-Exp electronics 60s delay
-Dod dfx94 (it's in the mail!)
-and micro-loopers Mood and Stammen, but these serve a different purpose...

I'm sure I'm missing a few, there's always one pedal you've never heard of. I only found out the DOD dfx94 had an always-listening mode last week...
But even if I missed a couple, that's a poor number in the Golden Age of Pedals.

The maneco doesn't do time-stretching, neither does Blooper (though it does other fx)

Wait... What do you mean exactly about the Manecco not doing time-stretching? Once something is looped, the time knob does not affect the loop?
EDIT: ok, I think I gotcha. you mean: with the feedback maxed out, you get infinite repeats, in that case, the time knob is modifying the loop. But once something is locked (loop), the time knob has no effect on the loop. Right?
Well that's no big deal actually, you can unlock the loop (it won't die since you have infinite repeats), play with the Time knob and lock it again...

[shikawkee]

I really feel this thread, albeit for slightly different reasons. Contrary to some I used to mostly be in it for the always-listening part so you could retroactively decide to loop/repeat something interesting you had just played while improvising. For these reasons over the years I've bought a 16SDD Reissue with the original footswitch, a Pigtronix Echolution 2 Ultra Pro on which I had to downgrade the firmware (due to a bug in later firmware disabling always listening even in that specific mode) and an Expedition Electronics 60 Second Delay. On the first and the last, I really miss the option of tap tempo, and on the Echolution I just kinda get lost in the extreme tweakability and preset storing etc. that the digital realm has to offer (this is what I fear would also happen if I get a Blooper; not that I can afford one right now anyway because I've already spent money on other stuff).

For what Eivind wants, I have used analog delays before to get great sounding lofi degrading loops going, but the drawback of this is that AFAIK no analog delay pedal can go beyond ~2 seconds, so the available loop time is very limited. For an example check out the beginning of this song below: the intro bit with just piano chords, guitar swells and an evolving bass line. The last iteration of the intro's bass line (G# A# B G D# that starts around 1:52) is looped for a long time (like 3,5 minutes) by an analog delay pedal as a reminder of the intro while the core part of the song starts up post-intro. Due to the degrading nature of analog delay repeats, the bass line devolves in to clicking and popping noises, essentially becoming a percussion-like embellishment to the drum track over a newly introduced sustained G# drone as bass line, that is eventually reinforced by additional glitchy noise tracks until the G# drone turns into a driving ostinato and takes over all bass duties by 5:29, and the drums also amp up around there.


In a a way, it really is too bad no one has tried to cram like 20 or 30 of those reissued Xvive (IIRC) BBD chips in 1 pedal yet to try and get an analog delay pedal on the markt with 4 or 5 (or more) seconds of delay time

Yeah, the Pigtronix only ever went to 12 seconds max anyway. The longest SOS delay readily available (until ours is ready which will be analog/digital) is the Boss DD-20. Pretty inexpensive option for a pedal that can do 23 seconds of delay.

[Gone Fission]

Why no super long BBD delays? Because TGP idiots will whine about their dotted quarter notes being too clean. There is such impatience with effects among so many musicians—if they cannot hear it in two seconds they will never hear what it does. Probably less time for a bunch. BBD’s are cleaner and higher bandwidth at low delay times. (MXR did major voodoo in the 118 to keep the delays clean at high times in a way that sounded consistent, but we’re talking 512ms and it’ll decay soon enough to hear.)

This goes into the general mismatch of technology and typical musicians. Just because you have long delay lines doesn’t mean you’re Terry Riley or Robert Fripp. You actually have to have the creativity and compositional sense to put it to use, and to practice methods enough to pull it off. (And I don’t say this thinking I’m a guru on the top of the mountain. Far from it.)

I think the Eventide Rose is always listening, right? So if you’re blind like me, you can add that to the list.

[Christophe]

I think the Eventide Rose is always listening, right? So if you’re blind like me, you can add that to the list.

And the Time factor so it seems...
I'm not into the menu-diving type of pedals so i guess I missed those for that reason.

[shikawkee]

Eventide Rose is always listening, yes.

[JM Charcot]

Eventide Rose is always listening, yes.

At the moment I use my El Capistan for my droney sound on sound recordings (10 seconds or 20 seconds lower quality), could you do the same with the Rose?

[Dowi]

This goes into the general mismatch of technology and typical musicians. Just because you have long delay lines doesn’t mean you’re Terry Riley or Robert Fripp. You actually have to have the creativity and compositional sense to put it to use, and to practice methods enough to pull it off. (And I don’t say this thinking I’m a guru on the top of the mountain. Far from it.)

+1 on this.
I've been trying to improve my sound on sound abilities in the last months, starting with just "short" delays (6 to 8sec) compared to the ehx 16sdd, but it requires a dedicated approach to compositions. Plus you absolutely have to be sure you're hitting the right note.