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I've been thinking about picking up these 2 models, as they would be in my price range.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StudioChan
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProMPA2

I wouldn't mind getting just 1 really nice one, but I sort of need 4 channels.

pro MPA is a good choice. prob one of the best budget preamps. slap some different tubes in there if u do tho. made a big difference for me.

golden age pre73 is a dope mono one too.

fmr audio RNP

do u really want the comp and eq of the presonus? or do u just want a straight pre?

Well I only have an outboard graphic eq, parametric wouldn't be bad, but I do have compressors as well. So I'm in no way set on that particular one.

What tubes would you recommend?

i got some telefunkens b/c i liked the name. they sound fantastic tho and weren't like super expensive. ~$40 for a pair.
the variable impedance knobs are really nice too for dialing in lots of different sounds.
for me, it seems to open up the sound when i turn it up. gets denser when i turn it down. its a nice control to have

theres a good amount of info out there on the MPA and different tubes that ppl have tried.
used MPA's are like a hundred bucks too.

What do you need them for? Phantom? Expansion of existing board? Etc.

IE what are you trying to accomplish by lighting cash on fire?

Right now all of the recordings I do for my band and some other bands is all done mackie mixer out to 4 track casette (occasionally a stereo interface. I'm mainly looking for a little additional headroom as I'm not able to get quite as much presence as I would like.

I figured 2 outboard preamps may be better than trying to upgrade my board right now. Is there a better way to get a little coloration and presence/clarity?

Psyre wrote:I'm mainly looking for a little additional headroom as I'm not able to get quite as much presence as I would like.

How are you going to go about summing the external preamps with the native Mackie channels?

Take this with a grain of salt, as my first hand experience with Mackie desks is fleeting (I've used them but don't own one), but unless you are hammering the shit out of it, I think the point at which the Mackie runs out of headroom is post channel strip - in the buss or master sum sections, so.. if you're hanging externals off a direct in to the Mackie you might find yourself still fighting this particular goblin.

Honestly, I'd try and borrow something and confirm it improves things before sinking too much money into it.

What I'm doing now is sending main out 1 and 2 and dedicated bass and guitar tracks, I then send my 3 drum mics out of Alt 3/4. Each gets their own respective input 1-4 in to my 4 track. I may be totally off but I was thinking of putting the preamps in between the mackie and 4 track to give each track it's specific color instead of the straight spund they are all getting now.

Perhaps a nicer board with more "usable" on board preamps would be better for this, bt I think that would cost me as much as 2 preamps and a better digital interface

Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. wrote:RNP

I have one of these for sale fwiw. My eBay sale got cold feet. I'd take $280 shipped

It's worth a shot, sure. Given that you already have an established set-up, you can just pile stuff on one at a time.

It also occurs to me that since you're thinking of running the preamp post mixer, you needn't limit your thinking to preamp at all (and make sure you get one that has pads on the front, or all you'll gain is grit). Some old EQ might offer up some beneficial voicing, and sometimes oddball shit like PA distribution amplifiers surface for peanuts.

Don't overlook old video technology either, typically the wideband circuitry includes DC (by which I mean, you're not limited to the MHz bands). Most of the video stuff I have experimented with didn't distort nicely, but there are a couple of units I have that actually benefit the signal passing through them (in respect to a certain sound). Of course, that's opening the door to another subset of connectors, which will drive some folks crazy.

Is this presence pre-mix, pre-master? What mics? Are the bands too loud for the room?

Is it uniform on the digital straight in versus the cassette, or is it a case of "where's the clarity?" on the cassette?

Mackie boards while they're not built like they were in the Stone Age still generally sound stupid good for affordable stuff.

IME you could throw a million bucks worth of pres at a cassette four track and get exactly what you're describing. It's the main reason I moved away from it as fast as I could while they were still relevant, the only way to get rid of that was to master the living hell out of it and in the end, can't fix what's not there.

Not sure if you are also the one mixing the tracks, nor do I know what your monitor set up is, but chances are you'd be better off throwing the money into better monitors or room treatment....

Budget preamps aren't typically really that much better than what you get on not-trash-tier affordable mixers. When I hear "lack of headroom/presence" in the same sentence as "4 track cassette" I'm way more inclined to suspect the issue is happening after the Mackie's input stage. My first guesses would be: a) gain staging/levels mismatching. Maybe the Mackie is feeding out a signal that is higher than the 4 track can gracefully accept and the channels are overdriving. Are you running into the XLR or quarter inch inputs on the 4 track? b) 4 track in need of standard analog maintenance. Have you cleaned and demagnetized the heads recently? c) mics aren't in the optimal places.

If this is a standard Mackie VLZ mixer, those preamps are not great, but certainly sufficient.

Yea, I agree, preamp may have been a little hasty. I most likely would benefit far more with growing my mic arsenal.

I think presence may have been a wrong discriptor. The instruments sound right, but just a little sterile, but it's definitely my current mic setup. I'll probably add a Beta 52a as well as the stereo pair of Fathead II's.

I'd probably benefit from running the mics through a little compression and maybe EQ in the front end opposed to all in post.

I know 4 tracks aren't necessarily convenient, but I'm far more pleased with the sound of my mint Yamaha MT100 over my Saffire 6>Abelton. I've found even when bouncing my 4 tracks to Abelton it sound better than what I'm getting with the interface. I'll be upgrading to an 8 I/O interface before long though.

Preamps are also the most overblown thing in audio. There's an at least equal, and perhaps more meaningful tonal difference in changing your guitar pick than there is in going from an FMR preamp to a Neve 1084. I'm not saying preamps are unimportant, they are important - but the differences between a decent pre and a stellar pre don't really start to shine until you'd taken care of many other parts of the equation. Source instrument, microphone, microphone placement, understanding your room acoustics, & gain staging are all going to matter more IMO. Maybe upload a clip of what's sounding sterile to you from your 4 track?