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https://www.thefire.org/yale-students-d ... een-email/

My political/social views are mostly on the left. I've realized over the years though (currently 30) that A.) the two political party dichotomy is BS and ideological traps. B.) there is plenty on the left that can and needs to be scrutinized and challenged. Even ideas or principals that are supposed to be, or claim to be, 'inclusive' or looking out for people that experience some form of oppression. It seems that what is going on in a lot of college campuses these days is that students want to be insulated from anything they disagree with and deem harmful or offensive. In the process of doing this, though, the line can be blurred as to what justifies a response and protest* and the censoring of free-speech and painting people into intellectual corners, where if they cross a certain line, they are deemed as being insensitive, offensive, not creating safe-spaces.

*One could always quibble with what and when justifies such a response, and to debate/dialogue on that is an important point.

Welcome to being 23!

I'm of the opinion that eventually all this will swing back towards the other direction.

I once worked in a neighborhood that was ultra PC (this was 10 years ago) and for some reason I got into a "discussion" with a small child who was trick or treating on Halloween. I can't remember what costume he was wearing, but I asked him "Don't you wanna dress up as a cowboy or something?" His response, "My mommy doesn't allow me to play with toy guns."

Also, I just listened to this, which used to be considered funny, but now is horribly un-PC:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9AI8FdMdk[/youtube]

Also, I'm sure this song is now heard as being Un-PC as well:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt56-z-QuG8[/youtube]

Yeah. I feel like it's doing people not that much younger than me a tremendous disservice. Creating a place where you have the ability to balk at things you find offensive and demand that they be removed from your attention is really fucking stupid. It prevents people from from learning how to deal effectively with an opposing view, and also does little to actually fix the problem.

I'm all for people being aware of their actions and how they may be perceived, but it's gotten way the fuck out of hand in the past couple of years.

t-rey wrote:Yeah. I feel like it's doing people not that much younger than me a tremendous disservice. Creating a place where you have the ability to balk at things you find offensive and demand that they be removed from your attention is really fucking stupid. It prevents people from from learning how to deal effectively with an opposing view, and also does little to actually fix the problem.
I'm all for people being aware of their actions and how they may be perceived, but it's gotten way the fuck out of hand in the past couple of years.

Write a book about it why don't ya......

Faldoe wrote: It seems that what is going on in a lot of college campuses these days is that students want to be insulated from anything they disagree with and deem harmful or offensive. In the process of doing this, though, the line can be blurred as to what justifies a response and protest* and the censoring of free-speech and painting people into intellectual corners, where if they cross a certain line, they are deemed as being insensitive, offensive, not creating safe-spaces.

This is true of more or less every group of people. Ivy League students are just a particularly fun group to poke fun at since they're not disadvantaged in nearly any sense of the word.

MEC wrote:

t-rey wrote:Yeah. I feel like it's doing people not that much younger than me a tremendous disservice. Creating a place where you have the ability to balk at things you find offensive and demand that they be removed from your attention is really fucking stupid. It prevents people from from learning how to deal effectively with an opposing view, and also does little to actually fix the problem.
I'm all for people being aware of their actions and how they may be perceived, but it's gotten way the fuck out of hand in the past couple of years.

Write a book about it why don't ya......

As long as there are some dudes out there pretending to be ultra PC just to score with the sjw chicks I'm fine with it.

I couldn't sit through that video. Did they really expect this guy to immediately apologize for an email that didn't, to me, even go as far as to say, "you should push PC boundaries for Halloween", but just "maybe you should consider the extent of PC attitudes here", and if they did, doesn't that then say something about the backbone/makeup of their faculty, or lack thereof? I'm not someone that invests myself in the climate/spirit/environment of school anymore than I have to while I'm there, but contributing to the salary of a yes man doesn't seem like something to be proud of.

I mean... it's not that weird that people in their 20s start being weirdly passionate about things that noone else gives a shit about - and because it's not an issue to others makes it more significant.

I've just learned to never take yourself seriously. It's cool to have ideals, but it's probably better to avoid being hostile in any way.

weed_killer wrote:I couldn't sit through that video. Did they really expect this guy to immediately apologize for an email that didn't, to me, even go as far as to say, "you should push PC boundaries for Halloween", but just "maybe you should consider the extent of PC attitudes here", and if they did, doesn't that then say something about the backbone/makeup of their faculty, or lack thereof? I'm not someone that invests myself in the climate/spirit/environment of school anymore than I have to while I'm there, but contributing to the salary of a yes man doesn't seem like something to be proud of.

Did you see video 3, where one girl blows up on the guy? It is amazing in a perpetual-face-palming kind of way.

Andrew wrote:I mean... it's not that weird that people in their 20s start being weirdly passionate about things that noone else gives a shit about - and because it's not an issue to others makes it more significant.

I've just learned to never take yourself seriously. It's cool to have ideals, but it's probably better to avoid being hostile in any way.

Being passionate about something - no, you're right, it's not that weird. The problem is thinking one is in the right because they are offended and that the person(s) causing them offense are wrong and should be silenced.

I've been waiting my whole life to be this guy but the time is quickening...

South Park nailed the whole PC thing to a T. Fuck being PC and fuck young people. No offense you bunch of sissies. hahaha.

For real though. My brother is 24 and him and his friends are ridiculously immature at their age. It's the common trend now. When I was 24 (I'm only 33 now), I was already working full time, trying to go to school and had a fucking family started. Kids in the generations below need their asses kicked. Not to be coddled like babies. Ugh. So much hate I have for young people. So much.

^^^This makes sense to me, but keep in mind that every generation has said that about the succeeding generation pretty much since the dawn of time. You may be more right than people have been in the past, but there's still a "kids these days" mentality that might betray more about the speaker than the people being spoken of.

I work with "young" people all day long. I'm a professor, and I don't just drop that in here to say "I know what I'm talking about" or anything--I don't. But I do have lots of data.

I think that the anger we feel toward millennials--or whomever it is we're talking about--has more to do with their privilege than it does with their politics. When you're young, you don't have the perspective to separate the two. You just see the world as you see it, and there's nothing more important than your own convictions. It's not so much that their politics are bad (or incoherent), or that they're even off base--it's that they can't imagine something different. And, wrapped up in that inability, they're offended at the mere thought that something else might be valid, or even articulated. They are more "of a mind" than most generations, I think, in that they seem to share many ideas and ideals.

I teach on race pretty frequently. At my first job (I've taught at five colleges and universities now--large sample size), students generally came from really poor neighborhoods. There were probably four or five white students in a class of twenty-five or thirty. We got a lot of good work done--even the white students who I feared would become uncomfortable. And, I mean, I fucking encourage discomfort. We usually debunk the harmful mythology of the black penis in the first week or two (and that's all I'll say about that for now).

At my second job, students came from exurban or even suburban backgrounds. Mostly white, mostly children of doctors, dentists, lawyers, pharmacists, &c--they were well-to-do. I had complaints about my teaching for doing the same stuff I'd used to great effect elsewhere. More importantly, those students didn't acknowledge that race was something worth talking about. They thought that I was contributing to the problem by even bringing it up. They consistently said things like "I don't see color," which is a problematic attitude in that it discounts the kinds of things that people of color have done to distinguish themselves. Of course you don't see it--you live in a white neighborhood. And you go to a white school. And your dad's law firm doesn't hire anyone who's not white. But when I ask after these things...guess what? Students get offended. The goal isn't sameness, or whitewashing, in other words--it's equality.

To put it simply: the people who are driving us crazy with this shit are the same people who will graduate and manage hedge funds; they'll be running for office in thirty years, and they'll get elected. They will be the leaders of tomorrow. They'll ask me for recommendations so that they can get better jobs with a Business degree than I will ever sniff with a PhD (not that I particularly want those jobs, but you get the idea).

Trying to show them (or convince them) that there's a world of difference that does not accept their comfortable and privileged existence is met with derision--it upsets the apple cart. Speaking truth to power--even when that power is younger than you--has consequences, and that's what we're seeing here. Our displeasure at this phenomenon doesn't matter. It's a power play by people who already have all the power.

The students and young people who don't belong to the privileged class tacitly understand all of this, and they don't participate. They're not millennials; they don't have access to smartphones; they aren't privileged in any sense of the word. They're like us old folks (and I'm fucking 29 years old--a dinosaur to them), so offendedness is a real part of their lives. They don't have access to the fake offendedness of their more privileged generational peers, as they're actually getting stomped IRL. Sample absence excuses:

School 1: My brother got caught in a shootout, I'm in the ER with him, I can't make it today.
School 2: I went to the opening showing of Harry Potter 7, and didn't feel like coming in today.

I am paraphrasing, but I am not making this shit up.

Rant ending...offendedness signifies privilege. The people in Ferguson didn't get offended. They mobilized. And that's the difference.

10/10