ilovefuzz.com

Yo dudes so I need a little bit more headroom in my bass rig. So I've got a couple different plans.

Currently Using: Ashdown MAG 300 into a 4x10 Ampeg Portaflex cab.

I like the cab just fine but it's an 8ohm cab so I only get about 150-200 watts effectively. I have another 1x15 cab but I can hardly fit my band's gear in my car as is and most stages we play don't have space for the two (they are a bit different in shape so I'd rather not stack). I play bass in a band that right now just does small shows at various venues around the city. Mostly surf-y garage is what we play so I need clean headroom. We have a pretty heavy handed drummer and two guitarists with who play loud and have their amps set pretty bright. I have the Ashdown close to maxed out and still get drowned out when they kick on a dirt pedal.

So I have made a pole:

Option 1: Pre/Power Amp: So I currently have a JHS Colour Box on my board and it works pretty well as a bass pre going in to my Sunn Sorado (if only it was powerful enough ) and I was thinking I'd just use the Colour Box as my preamp and just get a PA power amp and set it atop my cab. I'd probably get something that at least put out 300 watts at 8 ohms. The positives are that it would be very light and if I ever got to expand my rig to include more cabs, I'd have the capabilities and plenty of power. I've never really played a setup like this so don't know how it would sound.

Option 2: New Bass Head: Or should I just put the Colour Box back on my desk for use as a DI and Mic Pre and get a new bass head? I'd need something that at least does about 300 watts at 8 ohms. I could save a bit and sell some stuff for a nice tube bass amp, maybe something like a V4. Solid State heads are more in my budget though

Just use two cabs, pussy! Yeahh....


Recommendations for amps and such welcome!

V4

I always overpower my speakers and then use a little caution not to clip them, I'd go well over 300 watts if you are going solid state, 300 if tube. That is if you go the new amp or colorbox > power amp. Also check if the colorbox swing enough volts to drive a power amp? Quite a few "preamp" pedals on the market that just run at instrument level.

Dark Barn wrote:I always overpower my speakers and then use a little caution not to clip them, I'd go well over 300 watts if you are going solid state, 300 if tube. That is if you go the new amp or colorbox > power amp. Also check if the colorbox swing enough volts to drive a power amp? Quite a few "preamp" pedals on the market that just run at instrument level.

Yeah I tried to find the output voltage of the Colour Box to no avail. I was looking at power amps with sensitive inputs for that case.

I really just want a loud enough version of my Sorado. But damn it's surprising how many bass amps out there are just completely underpowered. I don't really see a lot of bassists gigging with multiple cabs either.

Yeah with an 8 Ohm cab and one channel I don't think a power amp setup really makes any sense. I'd need to get something that puts out around 2000 watts to get my desired power at 8 ohms and at that point would be spending the same amount as a dope tube bass amp.


So you don't think the V4 would be quite loud enough to keep up and stay clean at 100 watts? I don't mind a little grit or anything.

I find the ashdown amps mushy, particularly when cranked up full.
Get a new head that's powerful enough to provide gig level volume you need when it's turned up to about half. Folks might disagree, but you don't want to be running a bass amp up full the whole time.
Ultimately more cabs is ideal for squeezing (much) more volume out of an amp, but logistics and back pain cannot be ignored.
Good luck!

if you like your rig is it an idea to maybe put much more powerful or efficient speakers in the box? Like do you feel like the head is working hard but the cab is not responding enough? Worth trying to borrow a 6x10 or something if it'd fit in the car and try with that?

While I love V4s, personally I don't think loud and headroom are things they do together well. Especially depending on what cab you're putting them through. If it's an underpowered cab you might struggle.

Do all those neo magnet speaker cabs that talkbass dudes lose their shit over offer more in terms of clean power? Worth updating to the more powerful ashdown or a portaflex or something? I 100% agree with boxbie about not wanting to run an amp much past half.

I dunno, I struggled with the clean headroom thing on bass for years and have found all sorts of amps not quite powerful enough for me and my stupid reflex bass cab. My solution (a stupid powerful science tube amp) ended up being expensive unfortunately .

Boxbie wrote:I find the ashdown amps mushy, particularly when cranked up full.
Get a new head that's powerful enough to provide gig level volume you need when it's turned up to about half. Folks might disagree, but you don't want to be running a bass amp up full the whole time.
Ultimately more cabs is ideal for squeezing (much) more volume out of an amp, but logistics and back pain cannot be ignored.
Good luck!

That's been my problem, just feels mushy when the band gets really loud. So yeah I think I'd like to just upgrade the amp too.

If I was playing some really heavy stuff live, I'd suck it up and use two cabs. But it'd be overkill for the stuff we are doing and the venues we play.

I'll take tone over convenience and price so if it's a heavy amp that's a bit more expensive, totally fine with me. I'm also entertaining just getting a matching 1x15 Ampeg cab to throw under the 4x10 along with a new amp. Really would rather have one cab though.

Anyone used Mesa bass amps? I can pick up something much more expensive on Sweetwater since I could get 2 years of interest free financing that I could easily pay off.

The mesa 400+ is my fav bass amp. Does weight 45ish pounds tho

expensive when you need a retube too. I've heard great things about the M9.

I had an Aguilar AG500 that I used while I was playing bass in a couple different bands for a while. It had a tremendous amount of focused low end and headroom. I had an Aguilar fridge to go with it, and that combination seemed capable of causing organ damage (ugh, esp beware the deep switch). At one point I played it through a friend's Eden 2x12 and I honestly liked that combination a little better.

It's also nice and small, and has a killer dirty channel... only thing is that it's pricy. Could always find a used one though.

Seeing as you need at least 200-300 watts of power for bass, your B and C options are your best bet. If you like the tone you get with the Ashdown and Portaflex 4x10, I'd say just get another Portaflex 4x10. The matching speakers will reinforce your sound in a way that's just gut wrenching nor will it detract from your tone due to phase cancellation and filter combing of unmatched speakers, and you'll get full power out of the head. You'll also have a small stage footprint as well. This is always the easiest option if you're already satisfied with your tone. It's like finding a dirt pedal that's just right for boosting leads but doesn't color your already perfect tone. If you don't like the Ashdown all that much, find a more powerful head you like. And if you still want to add a second cab, get a matching Portaflex in this case as well.

I agree with daseb, anything short of an 8x10 and a V-4 or SVT will run out of headroom too early. I ended up going with a Science Mother after using a GK 400RB for a while after my SVT-VR (blech!), both are 200 watt heads that can stay clean at full power but have tons of overdrive on top. The GK can be had cheap and sounds a lot like an Ampeg but stays cleaner and has more overdrive options. The Science Mother, although pricey, is a Hiwatt DR201 that's $500-$1500 cheaper than one that says Hiwatt or Reeves on the front panel and also has more overdrive options. You'd wanna look at a more powerful GK with that 8 ohm Portaflex cab though.

Mesa's are aight, Haven't played with anything newer all that much but I had a Bass 400+ before my SVT-VR. Nothing to write home about but it didn't suck. Did take some effort to EQ.

I swore I'd never be that guy but I'm starting to feel like my answer to everyone's bass amp problems is 'science mother, they come in cool colours'.

Dude, I've been that guy with the Black Forest and overdrive questions for ages now, go nuts.
The Mother is definitely a contender.
YOU ARE VALIDATED IN YOUR ARGUMENT.

I'd love a Mother but the only way I could afford one right now is if I sold every other piece of gear I have or have a couple years to pay it off. Not currently in the cards but it's definitely a goal for down the road.

So really I'm going to not bother with tubes right now, probably go for something like the new Mesa Subway: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SubwayD800

A friend in a different band will buy my Ashdown and just picked up a 4 ohm Sunn 2x15 so I'll have to gig with the Sunn Sorado until the Subway is released. Perfect excuse to just sound fuzzy shit, nothing my bandmates can do about it.

Do it. I've seen the band Greiver doin' it. Loved that bass feeding back. The D-800 is pretty damn sleek.