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Iommic Pope wrote:Whilst I am also heavily entrenched in the "all delays and verbs be trails equipped" camp, there's still work arounds like trails loops....so a bit of a pain in the arse but not so huge a deal?

I guess it's not a big deal, it's just frustrating that such a simple idea (at least as far as operation goes, electronically I have no idea) isn't already incorporated into this already fancy and pricey reverb. Finding/buying a workaround puts it in a higher price range and takes up a lot more pedalboard real estate. Those two reasons make it a deal-breaker for me.

wfs1234 wrote:

Iommic Pope wrote:Whilst I am also heavily entrenched in the "all delays and verbs be trails equipped" camp, there's still work arounds like trails loops....so a bit of a pain in the arse but not so huge a deal?

I guess it's not a big deal, it's just frustrating that such a simple idea (at least as far as operation goes, electronically I have no idea) isn't already incorporated into this already fancy and pricey reverb. Finding/buying a workaround puts it in a higher price range and takes up a lot more pedalboard real estate. Those two reasons make it a deal-breaker for me.

+1

wfs1234 wrote:

Iommic Pope wrote:Whilst I am also heavily entrenched in the "all delays and verbs be trails equipped" camp, there's still work arounds like trails loops....so a bit of a pain in the arse but not so huge a deal?

I guess it's not a big deal, it's just frustrating that such a simple idea (at least as far as operation goes, electronically I have no idea) isn't already incorporated into this already fancy and pricey reverb. Finding/buying a workaround puts it in a higher price range and takes up a lot more pedalboard real estate. Those two reasons make it a deal-breaker for me.

Yeah man, I totally get that. Extra hassle certainly does blow, as does extra cost....but I'm willing to let that slide because wizards.

Yeah I always think of the trail loop.

I wanted this, at first, for the Wizard.
I told myself not to buy it because I bought a Cadavernous and I love that. I think this needs a home on my pedalboard. All I need is more verb and delay.




Also, solution to no trails...

Don't turn it off.

Afterneath sounds like a bigger/deeper version of what i did with my Ghost Echo. I think i'm in!

ALL THE REVERBS! i want my guitar to sound like soul crushing isolation and loneliness.

wfs1234 wrote:

spacelordmother wrote:I was mildly annoyed at no trails before watching the demo, but now I'm fucking pissed.

No kidding! I don't intend to offend but this really seems like the opposite of a "no bullshit" reverb, and not having trails really undermines the whole thing. "No bullshit" to me means it's simple and sounds good (like the Hall of Fame mini or Mooer Shimverb or footswitcheable amp reverb). This has complicated and non-intuitive features that would initially confuse most musicians. So, not having trails on the basis of this being a "no bullshit" reverb doesn't make any sense to me.

It sounds great and if it had trails I would buy it. As it is, I'm gonna pass. All delays and reverbs should have trails (especially if they have infinite repeats).

What if we drew a hiking map of a national park on the back, would that help?

OddKnowledge wrote:ALL THE REVERBS! i want my guitar to sound like soul crushing isolation and loneliness.

Catch the spirit!

Trails are hard to do cheaply! It sucks that something that seems simple is that hard from an electronic standpoint.
I've tried thinking of a cheap solution for trails in my own builds and it's just a lot of work
And then the whole 'not true bypass camp' would go on.

odontophobia wrote: Also, solution to no trails...

Don't turn it off.

earthdevice wrote:What if we drew a hiking map of a national park on the back, would that help?

Just tape a tab of LSD onto the circuit board and there'll be plenty of trails if you know what i'm sizzlin

wfs1234 wrote:

spacelordmother wrote:I was mildly annoyed at no trails before watching the demo, but now I'm fucking pissed.

No kidding! I don't intend to offend but this really seems like the opposite of a "no bullshit" reverb, and not having trails really undermines the whole thing. "No bullshit" to me means it's simple and sounds good (like the Hall of Fame mini or Mooer Shimverb or footswitcheable amp reverb). This has complicated and non-intuitive features that would initially confuse most musicians. So, not having trails on the basis of this being a "no bullshit" reverb doesn't make any sense to me.

It sounds great and if it had trails I would buy it. As it is, I'm gonna pass. All delays and reverbs should have trails (especially if they have infinite repeats).

The main problem, as has already been mentioned, is that trails = not true bypass. Now, you may not care. I don't care at all. But a lot of the guitar-pedal-buying public does care, because they've been conditioned over the last decade or so to think that true bypass is good and buffers suck. So making non-true bypass pedals will lose them sales (and probably more sales than not having trails will cost them). I can't kill them over that.

^^^^^ exactly!

earthdevice wrote: What if we drew a hiking map of a national park on the back, would that help?

Maybe

bigchiefbc wrote:The main problem, as has already been mentioned, is that trails = not true bypass. Now, you may not care. I don't care at all. But a lot of the guitar-pedal-buying public does care, because they've been conditioned over the last decade or so to think that true bypass is good and buffers suck. So making non-true bypass pedals will lose them sales (and probably more sales than not having trails will cost them). I can't kill them over that.

The sounds this has to offer probably don't really resonate with the TOAN-purists who wouldn't buy this if it had buffered bypass. Earthquake Devices already makes a very high-fi all analog reverb, and a high-fi delay with reverb, that likely appeal to that type of pedal consumer more. TOAN purists don't typically want reverbs that are very colored and sound incredibly unnatural, but there probably are a few people who would avoid it simply because BUFFURD BUY PASS?! OWE NOE!!!

I really like a good buffer in the right spot. But even if people were convinced buffered bypass was universally bad, if they knew the benefits of having trails I think they'd be willing to suffer the consequences of buffers. I know I loved the trails on my Muza even though its buffer colored the tone a bit.

skullservant wrote:Trails are hard to do cheaply! It sucks that something that seems simple is that hard from an electronic standpoint.
I've tried thinking of a cheap solution for trails in my own builds and it's just a lot of work

This argument makes sense to me. If it's going to add $100+ dollars to the cost of this I can totally see leaving this feature out. If it only adds a smallish cost, I see no reason to leave it out.

I did some math, and the opportunity cost of putting an additional trails looper on my board would be at least $190. So, even though this would make this pricier, as long as the additional cost wasn't super high I'd be willing to pay it.

I didn't intend to derail this thread, this really is a great sounding reverb and I'm sure it'll sell well. I just felt the need to put my two cents because the lack of trails in boutique reverbs and delays confuses and annoys me. If it's a cost issue I understand, if it's because of a fear of losing some market share it doesn't really make sense to me. Not many boutique reverbs have this feature, and a really useful and underutilized feature in a market saturated with reverbs that have similar functions should only make it sell better. This might just be a case where I'm being unreasonable, though.

Bellyheart wrote:Sounds great. Surprised there's no expression for the drag, but I guess that falls under the "no bullshit" policy. Really wanna hear more fiddling.

Yeah dude. My favorite part of all of the EQD peds are the knobs that adjust the "delay time" of whatever effect it is. Lag, animate, drag, all dat. Do any EQDs have expression input?

zRobertez wrote:

Bellyheart wrote:Sounds great. Surprised there's no expression for the drag, but I guess that falls under the "no bullshit" policy. Really wanna hear more fiddling.

Yeah dude. My favorite part of all of the EQD peds are the knobs that adjust the "delay time" of whatever effect it is. Lag, animate, drag, all dat. Do any EQDs have expression input?

I'm pretty sure the Rainbow Machine does.

The Afterneath reminds me of what the Nonlinear and Cloud modes on the BigSky would sound like combined into one mode.