Michael Gira rape allegation

[frodog]

I know. Just fucking ignore me, I'm drunk and have nothing coherent to add here.

[frodog]

We don't even know if it's true.

I know man. Just fucking ignore me, I'm drunk and have nothing coherent to add here.

[DarkAxel]

If that rape thing is true... it's horrible, but It doesn't change the music.
Per example: Noir Desire is one of the best french rock band... they are still even if the signer is a complete asshole. I lost respect for the guy, but the music is still great.

Doesn't it though? Given Gira's heavy lyric themes, I'd really beg to differ
also there's a difference between being an asshole and being a rapist

[Swordfishtrombone]

If that rape thing is true... it's horrible, but It doesn't change the music.
Per example: Noir Desire is one of the best french rock band... they are still even if the signer is a complete asshole. I lost respect for the guy, but the music is still great.

Doesn't it though? Given Gira's heavy lyric themes, I'd really beg to differ
also there's a difference between being an asshole and being a rapist

There's a lot of Swans stuff where it really doesn't matter to me because I don't really listen to it for the lyrics (it's kinda like how David Byrne and Steve Albini describe the singing as just being another part of the sound, rather than a stand out thing for me if that makes sende), but there's also some stuff that's weird to listen to since this came up. "You Fucking People..." is even more uncomfortable with this, same with a lot of Angels of Light ("Sometimes I Dream..." and "My Sister Said" come to mind here). "Time Is Money (Bastard)" definitely takes on a different vibe too now ("I WANT YOU TO BE... RAAAAAPED").

I think I'll still be able to enjoy a lot of his music, but some is a bit much since this accusation. I know I wont be buying anything else from them, or seeing them on their next tour unless something good comes out to clear him of this. I wouldn't be okay with myself if I continued to support someone that is/could very well be a rapist, or any other kind of sex criminal.

[Ugly Nora]

Let's be realistic here everyone. If supposedly 1 in 5 men are rapists, and most bands contain 4 or 5 guys, this means pretty much every band has a rapist whether they have been formally accused or not. As much as how shitty this is, we can't very well boycott all bands.

[D.o.S.]

Nicely put.

[DarkAxel]

Wait is it established that this is the ratio? Might have missed that... I wouldn't say the 1-in-5 ratio of women raped corellates with the amount of rapists like that

[Ugly Nora]

Oh, is that what the claim was? I try not to pay too much attention to aens wifes posts for obvious reasons. My bad.

On a related note, I'm listening to Soundtracks for the Blind right now. One of favorite of theirs.

[psychic vampire.]

Yeah, most rapists are not the one and done variety, though again, it largely depends on jow we define rape. And anybody asking you to boycott all bands is lacking a bit of nuance in their analysis (also, if we are adopting this "men = rapists, women = rape victims" line, there are plenty of bands/musicians who are women, or gay folks, or gender weird folks). But that doesn't mean we should just give it a pass when someone does get called out or accused. I loved Swans, but like, a lot of those lyrics take a much more disturbing tone than they already had if this is true, and it is always worth approaching a situation critically, and with self reflection. If this is true, and people still feel comfortable listening to Swans, that is absolutely their prerogative, i listen to music that some of my friends wouldn't, i just try to be critical of the artists I give weight to, and my own choices.

That said, i probably won't feel great listening to a lot of Swans, but i won't pretend the music never held weight in my life.

[Ugly Nora]

Aens wife specifically related her rape stats to men raping women. Not men raping men or women raping men or women raping women etc. I don't know if her statistics specifically cite men raping women, or if that is just an assumption on her part or just worded that way to push her agenda.

[snipelfritz]

1 in 5 men being rapists was never a part of it.

[Ugly Nora]

So which part of "my bad" is confusing you then?

[oscillateur]

If that rape thing is true... it's horrible, but It doesn't change the music.
Per example: Noir Desire is one of the best french rock band... they are still even if the signer is a complete asshole. I lost respect for the guy, but the music is still great.

Doesn't it though? Given Gira's heavy lyric themes, I'd really beg to differ
also there's a difference between being an asshole and being a rapist

Just for the record, Noir Desir's singer is an utter asshole because he killed his girlfriend by hitting her during an argument they had. So yeah, not rape but lethal domestic violence. That woman was a well-known french actress, and this happened while she was filming a movie in Lithuania I think (or maybe he was on tour there, I forgot), so this made the news for a long time in France...

[snipelfritz]

So which part of "my bad" is confusing you then?

Oh, not trying to dump on anyone. Just being redundant I guess.

[sylnau]

If that rape thing is true... it's horrible, but It doesn't change the music.
Per example: Noir Desire is one of the best french rock band... they are still even if the signer is a complete asshole. I lost respect for the guy, but the music is still great.

Doesn't it though? Given Gira's heavy lyric themes, I'd really beg to differ
also there's a difference between being an asshole and being a rapist

Just for the record, Noir Desir's singer is an utter asshole because he killed his girlfriend by hitting her during an argument they had. So yeah, not rape but lethal domestic violence. That woman was a well-known french actress, and this happened while she was filming a movie in Lithuania I think (or maybe he was on tour there, I forgot), so this made the news for a long time in France...

That's what I was referencing to. That was horrible.