Page 6 of 7
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:03 pm
by rustywire
Entitlement attitudes can go screw...and there's more important shit to worry about than skintone.
If you're passionate, curious & respectful the doors of *closed spaces* open up, willingly.
Closed minds take a little longer, but forcing entry always, always, always results in pushback & hostility.
In [current year] there's a conspicuous push for *creating inclusive spaces* by actively discriminating against white men.
Let that goofy doublethink resonate.
Maybe because I grew up around NYC...where actual diversity exists...I for one am tired of shoehorned, superficial diversity being suggested by cozy, middle class authoritarians as a *fix* to the *problem* of "a boys club" or any niche "mostly enjoyed by white boys"
(I look white but am actually a hodgepodge variety of *white & barely colored people* due to genetic diversity)
At 10, in school I mostly hung around with krnz & azn immigrants, who exposed me to shit like Dragonball & vidya game skillz.
I was the only white kid in the group. Never seemed an issue to me.
In late teen years I hung with numerous Colombians, where Guats, Cubans, Peruvians, blacks from DR, Jamaica, Nigeria...Krnz were all present. Again I was the *ethnic minority* At no point did I think "maybe we should have more white faces in the squad" because WHO SERIOUSLY THINKS THAT TYPE OF SHIT OUT IN THE REAL WORLD?
LIKE
WHAT
YOU
WANT
LIVE
YOUR
OWN
LIFE
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:11 pm
by D.o.S.
rustywire wrote:At no point did I think "maybe we should have more white faces in the squad" because WHO SERIOUSLY THINKS THAT TYPE OF SHIT OUT IN THE REAL WORLD?
I, for one, base the validity of my taste on how ethnographically varied a given thing's fanbase is.
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:20 pm
by goroth
You can think what you want about social justice, entitlement, or whatever. It doesn't change two facts.
1) Metal is ostensibly, by its own (loose) definition, music for outsiders
2) Metal is for the most part a giant sausage fest, and the sausage of choice is Weißwurst.
Fact 2 doesn't necessarily sit well with fact 1 in a wide range of societies.
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:16 pm
by casecandy
goroth wrote:casecandy wrote:Doom is attracting female fans left and right. Look at all the women making awesome doom metal, I mean, Wata in Boris is an absolute goddess, then there's Kylesa, Windhand, SubRosa, Electric Wizard. When the music is legitimately not a boy's club, the audience will follow.
P.S. The guy from Conan is my FB friend and he's awesome and I felt like bragging about it LOL
Doom is still a boys club.
As is holding a guitar or a set of drumsticks in general.
It depends on what you mean by boy's club. I wasn't really saying doom isn't a boys club, more like, it's got a female fan base
to the degree that it has moved away from being a boy's club. As far as that goes... doom seems
way more embracing of women than a lot of similar genres. Yessir, that's a privileged man's opinion. But based on my observations it holds water.
Look at black metal. Myrkyr receives death threats so frequently she disabled her Facebook messages. I can't think of a doom or stoner chick in a similar predicament. They probably get a lot of unsolicited marriage proposals, though...
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:20 pm
by D.o.S.
I'm sure the world would see you as an authority on metal subgenres.
and gender.
you're basically ILF's grim kimm, after all.
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:38 am
by goroth
casecandy wrote:
Look at black metal. Myrkyr receives death threats so frequently she disabled her Facebook messages. I can't think of a doom or stoner chick in a similar predicament. They probably get a lot of unsolicited marriage proposals, though...
The hate towards Myrkry stems from a bunch of genre elitists with their heads up their asses getting pissed at music that is
a) not trve
b) popular
Not unlike how they react to Liturgy or any other band not confining to tropes established in Norway 22 years ago.
That Myrkyr is female is just a bonus and gives an extra dimension to the hatred.
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:33 pm
by rustywire
goroth wrote:casecandy wrote:
Look at black metal. Myrkyr receives death threats so frequently she disabled her Facebook messages. I can't think of a doom or stoner chick in a similar predicament. They probably get a lot of unsolicited marriage proposals, though...
The hate towards Myrkry stems from a bunch of genre elitists with their heads up their asses getting pissed at music that is
a) not trve
b) popular
Not unlike how they react to Liturgy or any other band not confining to tropes established in Norway 22 years ago.
That Myrkyr is female is just a bonus and gives an extra dimension to the hatred.
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:43 pm
by SPACERITUAL
rustywire wrote:goroth wrote:casecandy wrote:
Look at black metal. Myrkyr receives death threats so frequently she disabled her Facebook messages. I can't think of a doom or stoner chick in a similar predicament. They probably get a lot of unsolicited marriage proposals, though...
The hate towards Myrkry stems from a bunch of genre elitists with their heads up their asses getting pissed at music that is
a) not trve
b) popular
Not unlike how they react to Liturgy or any other band not confining to tropes established in Norway 22 years ago.
That Myrkyr is female is just a bonus and gives an extra dimension to the hatred.
I want to echo this but also say that:
1. black metal is about hate, especially ethno-european white male hate. So if it is sexism then its acceptable within the confines of the genre.
2. Black metal has also become about rejecting rigid genre stereotypes, if not necessarily the hate part. That being said, a lot of black metals elite have repped myrkyr and appeared as guests on her recordings.
3. Myrkyr are siiiiick as fuck.
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:15 pm
by casecandy
I feel everything you said to a point.
First, how is sexism, especially sexism resulting in death threats, acceptable? I'm not being a dick or contrarian. Could you explain that a little more?
Second, the only thing I don't agree with is that black metal has become about rejecting genre stereotypes. You've got your trve black metal and you've got your post-rock black metal and you've got your synthy black metal... I see the variation but... I dunno, a lot of it is geared toward being trve and kvlt in all the ways you'd think.
I think black metal is roughly as innovative as doom metal. Maybe it thinks it's more innovative.
Black metal isn't my thing though, doom is, feel free to disagree... I'm listening...
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:17 pm
by Iommic Pope
It's not acceptable, it's just that those dumb fucks don't see it as problematic.
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:29 pm
by casecandy
Iommic Pope wrote:It's not acceptable, it's just that those dumb fucks don't see it as problematic.
Oh, well, yeah, I knew that. Isn't that the nature of the beast?
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:41 pm
by SPACERITUAL
casecandy wrote:I feel everything you said to a point.
First, how is sexism, especially sexism resulting in death threats, acceptable? I'm not being a dick or contrarian. Could you explain that a little more?
Well it depends on whether you view black metal as a cultural movement or just a music style.
The people that started black metal were blatantly consumed with violent hatred towards the different cultural elements that they saw as being responsible for the decline or outright destruction of various ethnoeuropean cultural identities, though more specifically nordic.
Any basic study of black metal can show you how this played out violently. To put it simply, black metal in its original form is a violent reaction to the things certain white nothern europeans see as destroying their culture. Its about hate. Violent hate. You can sit there and talk about divorcing black metal from its founders but its ultimately their creation and an extension of their ideas and beliefs.
We can go around and around with this new age everyone is ok bullshit but some of you guys are going to have to square with the fact that you cant fit everything to which you might be attracted around your personal philosophies.
Original Black metal as a culture is not inclusive. I mean look if you just stripped everything that actually happened in real life away, the majority of it is violently and single mindedly opposed to christianity in any way shape or form.
It might be cool and it might be acceptable but hate is hate and youre going to have to square with that. Its no different from racism or sexism or any other hot button issue today.
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:04 pm
by D.o.S.
SPACERITUAL wrote:casecandy wrote:I feel everything you said to a point.
First, how is sexism, especially sexism resulting in death threats, acceptable? I'm not being a dick or contrarian. Could you explain that a little more?
Well it depends on whether you view black metal as a cultural movement or just a music style.
The people that started black metal were blatantly consumed with violent hatred towards the different cultural elements that they saw as being responsible for the decline or outright destruction of various ethnoeuropean cultural identities, though more specifically nordic.
Any basic study of black metal can show you how this played out violently. To put it simply, black metal in its original form is a violent reaction to the things certain white nothern europeans see as destroying their culture. Its about hate. Violent hate. You can sit there and talk about divorcing black metal from its founders but its ultimately their creation and an extension of their ideas and beliefs.
We can go around and around with this new age everyone is ok bullshit but some of you guys are going to have to square with the fact that you cant fit everything to which you might be attracted around your personal philosophies.
Original Black metal as a culture is not inclusive. I mean look if you just stripped everything that actually happened in real life away, the majority of it is violently and single mindedly opposed to christianity in any way shape or form.
It might be cool and it might be acceptable but hate is hate and youre going to have to square with that. Its no different from racism or sexism or any other hot button issue today.
This also ties in nicely to the moments of discussion in the swans thread about whether or not you can still like the music if the creator is a shitbag.
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:04 pm
by casecandy
I understand wanting to reclaim one's culture, but I can't for the life of me understand why that desire has to be directed outwardly in the form of hate for other cultures.
Like... the Vikings spent fucking centuries raping and pillaging other cultures. And then they willingly submitted to Christianity. And these guys are butthurt about that?
To say nothing of the fact that Hitler was a Christian, so it's a bit odd to embrace National Socialism in your attempt to purge your culture of Christian influences.
Re: something about not being white and loving fuzz and nois
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:07 pm
by D.o.S.
I will take oversimplification for 3,000 years of aryan justice, Trebek.
Xenophobia is one of the most base human instincts there is. You give a bunch of 17 year old Elf looking motherfuckers guitars and a country that's being "corrupted" by an external religious force cum social decorum special ring decoder, that's what you're going to get (for better or worse).