Orri leaves Sigur Ros over sexual misconduct allegation

[Eivind August]

Speaking of evidence and facts, you have yet to comment on the fact that, per your source, nearly 95% of rape cases are not false accusations.

So, we're going to ignore 94.5% of the pool to elevate a tiny sliver of cases as what we should be using as our guiding principles in this discussion because... why?

Not to mention the number of sexual assaults never reported because of shit like this.

[D.o.S.]

Yeah virtue signalling is a real scourge.

[Benn Roe]

I'm guessing you didn't read my reply to those figures. Not that any number or statistic is changing the mind of someone hell-bent on virtue signaling.

Using terms like "virtue signaling" is usually a good sign I'm wasting my time. I feel like those of us who disagree with you have done a pretty good job not resorting to words made up to make people feel bad for caring. Maybe show us the same courtesy?

[PuddysJacket]

There's really no argument to be had. Believe women. All women. Always, no matter what. Even if they're lying.

Am I missing anything, or is that the gist?

[Benn Roe]

Not to detract from the serious discussion at hand, but when did it become Benn Roe instead of bennroe.

...I'm turning into Sparrow here.

Eh, a few weeks ago. When I signed up, I foolishly forgot to check to see if spaces were okay, and eventually got around to requesting the change. People always refer to me as "bennroe" when it's all one word, which just feels silly when it's not really intended as an anonymous handle. This way I hope it's a little clearer that it's my actual name.

[UglyCasanova]

unfortunately a few men ending up falsely accused is the price we have to pay to make sure more men who are rapists end up facing justice.

That is morally abhorrent.

[Benn Roe]

There's really no argument to be had. Believe women. All women. Always, no matter what. Even if they're lying.

Am I missing anything, or is that the gist?

You're intentionally oversimplifying and ignoring the nuances, but sure, that's the gist.

[Benn Roe]

That is morally abhorrent.

In a vacuum, yes, but not when you consider that the alternative seems to be the near impunity of committing acts of sexual violence.

[D.o.S.]

No...those are just the cases where conclusive evidence to the contrary was found.

My feeling, personally, is that rapists, if found guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, should be castrated and/or killed. However, women are just as fucked up and crazy as men...to say otherwise would make you sexist, wouldn't it? Humans are flawed, and sometimes they lie. That should be all a logical person needs to know to not blindly side with someone that accuses another person of something.

Let's talk about assumptions for a second here.

1. 4-5,000 sexual assault claims per year are completely unfounded, according to you. This sucks. Everyone agrees on this.

2. Men and women are both capable of sexual assault, as you've said. This is true. However, from your posts, it appeara that the false accusations are predominantly detrimental to men, even though, as you've said, men and women are both capable of sexual assault.

3. Is it possible, then, that men are much more likely to be negatively impacted by false sexual assault charges because the overwhelming number of SA charges are against men? Why would this be so?

4. Since a very small percentage of SA charges are conclusively proven false, as we've both said, wouldn't this indicate that men are more likely to commit sexual assault than women? Otherwise why would your inherent position be that false sexual assault charges are more likely to damage men than women?

Otherwise you would say things like "the accused," right? Not "men."

If your point is that we shouldn't rush to judgement about this stuff, then, sure, I can see the logic. I just don't understand why only men are being damaged here? Help me out here, I'm trying to follow.

[PuddysJacket]

Is Asia Argento still viewed as a victim? Serious question. I mean in spite of her rejected love emails and the fact she had relations with a minor.

[D.o.S.]

Sure. It's possible to be a victim of sexual assault and an abuser. They call it a cycle of abuse for a reason, after all.

I think I might be missing your point. The news here is much less focused on MeToo than it is in the US.

[PuddysJacket]

Except the cycle of abuse mostly refers sufferers of childhood trauma reenacting what happened to them and trying to regain the power they were robbed of. Not adult women who accuse the men who don't return their love of rape. And then going on to bang teenagers.

[jrfox92]

That is morally abhorrent.

In a vacuum, yes, but not when you consider that the alternative seems to be the near impunity of committing acts of sexual violence.

So, this is the kind of logic that leads to zero tolerance policies that allows cops/attorneys/judges to basically just chuck anyone they want in prison for decades with no real recourse (hey, anyone remember the war on drugs?).
I get what you're saying, but you're still, effectively, advocating for false imprisonment because, "well, there's more of them that aren't even being arrested/imprisoned, so fuck 'em".

[PuddysJacket]

There is no false imprisonment, as long as the accused is male. Have you not heard of toxic masculinity?

[goroth]

unfortunately a few men ending up falsely accused is the price we have to pay to make sure more men who are rapists end up facing justice.

That is morally abhorrent.

Why is it abhorrent?
Dudes have been largely getting away with all sorts of violence towards women since time began.
That is abhorrent.
Current statistics about sexual violence, and eventual legal consequences for perpetrators of sexual violence, show that we as a society have a view about sexual violence that is abhorrent.
If a few innocent men get caught up in the attempt to redress this, in what way is that abhorrent?
Justice is an imperfect instrument.
We as a society try and improve this, so that innocent people stay out of jail, and that folks who get up to no good go to jail. Some of the laws are relatively good at this, and some aren't.
In the case of sexual violence are laws are so abysmally bad at prosecuting criminals almost anything we can do to right that is going, on the whole, to be a good thing.

Pretty sure believing women/the victim of sexual violence, is a fairly painless place to start.