Page 6 of 25
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:49 am
by Jwar
baremountain wrote:jwar wrote:Using these spin chips to make any profit that doesn't go to the builders, IE using it in a youtube video where you accept money from folks (no offense Magpie but I think that's a bit unethical).
How is this any different from a Knobs video? Maybe Knobs is a bad example bc I imagine he works directly w the manufacturers he demos, but what about any other unsolicited guitar pedal demo, like Pedals & Effects? Are those unethical? They definitely receive ad revenue by showing off the limits of another builder's intellectual property
But the builders also benefit because people say "oh shit, that's cool!" and go buy the pedals, so what's the harm in giving a little kickback to the person who took the time to demo the pedal (or in this case, concept)?
It's not much different than rehousing a pedal IMO, you're just taking a movable part from two things you own & switching them. If Simon or UC were to sell this, it'd be hella unethical, but all the attributes of the original manufacturers are being acknowledged & their products are still being advertised the same way they are in any other pedal youtube video, so I see no real harm in this.
People also sell circuit bent shit and upsell pedals and make money off builders' work all the time - and it's not like any of us are even suggesting to do something like that. The thought is why not combine shit to reduce space and increase utility. If you like mixing your shampoo and conditioner together to save space, and you paid for both, then it's not really that bad to rehouse the conditioner into the shampoo bottle you paid for. Now if you're going around selling this as a new product & don't acknowledge that you've used somone else's base materials, that's not very ethical.
I think all of us care about the builders we like being paid at the end of the day, and none of us are goign to willingly sabotage them. I, for one, am regretting selling my Super Radical now
I'll just answer the first part here. Knobs is specifically asked by builders to do demos. If he makes money from it, awesome! That's totally different.
When I rehouse something and make changes, builders do not like it. That's why I don't offer mods. I'll offer simple upgrades like jacks, LED's or something to that effect. Most things I've rehoused have been done because of the look more than the guts. Still it does void your warranty with the company usually.
Re other demo's done. I don't know. Jeff (Excane) does them at his expense. So I know he makes dick off them, not sure what others do. I know he asks the builders before he demos them. If I do a demo, which aren't nearly as good, I never make a dime off them.
I think we're skirting away from the issue and trying to make comparisons here and I'll restate what I said previously. You can justify anything if you want to.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:51 am
by Jwar
baremountain wrote:jwar wrote:I profited off of something that anyone else could.
Anyone with that pedal. And anyone with 2 spin chip pedals could theoretically profit off copying code from the chips.
(not arguing for it, but just pointing out a hole in your argument)
That's comparing apples to oranges. Not even close to the same thing.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:53 am
by D.o.S.
I would like to point out, though, jwar, that you're standing on the "this is unethical because I say so and this other thing is not because I say so" mountain right now.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:55 am
by UglyCasanova
jwar wrote:UglyCasanova wrote:jwar wrote:'Murica
Cool. I don't agree.
It has nothing to do with America bro.
Do you think that the folks selling Sonic Crayon pedals for excessive amounts are being unethical? Or Cornish or Toneczar or any other scarce pedal? No. It's called "if you want it, you'll pay for it or offer something else for it".
It definitely has something to do with American capitalist mindset. You've basically showcased said mindset twice in a row now. And yes, that is more unethical in my book than buying a pedal from a builder, not reselling or distributing the code or pedal, and tailoring your board to be more user-friendly. I'm not making a profit and they're not losing their intellectual property or having people sell their work for more money. If you don't see how one of those is shittier for a builder than the other, then you're just being illogical.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:55 am
by Jwar
D.o.S. wrote:I would like to point out, though, jwar, that you're standing on the "this is unethical because I say so and this other thing is not because I say so" mountain right now.
Ok well then how about this. I promise I'll never do that again as it could be preceived as being a dick when I did not intend and value my status as a good guy more than monetary gain.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:59 am
by D.o.S.
Not really my point.
Also, to UC, I would say that there's an argument to be made that creating content like this certainly is doing damage to a builder's IP.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:02 pm
by baremountain
This whole thread has me hating the spinchip worrying about the ethical ramifications of even knowing that this whole thing is possible now, thanks guys.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:04 pm
by UglyCasanova
DISS^^^^
D.o.S. wrote:
Also, to UC, I would say that there's an argument to be made that creating content like this certainly is doing damage to a builder's IP.
That's a fair point. So far, Dr.Scientist and Alexander Pedals have told me it was cool and OBNE started subscribing to my channel. If any builders featured get outraged by it, I will reconsider having shown something that literally anyone with a screwdriver could discover on their own, and take the video down.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:06 pm
by Jwar
Can we circle jerk again. I hate you all a little but you're my family so I also love you.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:07 pm
by D.o.S.
Never underestimate how lazy gear folks are, man. There's an entire universe of pedals that got discontinued because no one figured them out during production only to blow up after they saw an explained.
I don't have a dog in this fight though.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:07 pm
by Teej212
I suppose I am definitely a capitalist, but what are your thoughts on investments...the stock market, unethical? what about investing in your college education, then applying the knowledge you learned from others to profit? Might be a stretch but its still an investment. I would say buying a pedal and selling it for a higher price is also an investment.
vidret- im chill as a cucumber, however I definitely envision this having a potential to tail spin (spin
) into something more sinister. I know for a fact there is a way to copy code from the chips that is pretty easy, and once someone does a video about that say hello to mass cloning of these dsp pedals
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:08 pm
by baremountain
^ I agree with all of Vidret's sentiments. Definitely interested in keeping small builders in business, and keeping people's intellectual property rights protected, but I also agree with the idea that once you've bought something, you can do what you want to the thing to make it work better for your personal purposes, and it's 100% unquestionably ethical until you either share it, sell it, or distribute a tutorial on doing it. So far we can't even guarantee that algos can be pulled off the Spin Chips (and maybe that's the best way for it to stay)??
EDIT: Well, now we know it's possible
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:08 pm
by UglyCasanova
jwar wrote:Can we circle jerk again. I hate you all a little but you're my family so I also love you.
Fine, but I want twice as much tugging because you want it so much. Supply and demand, baby.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:09 pm
by Jwar
UglyCasanova wrote:jwar wrote:Can we circle jerk again. I hate you all a little but you're my family so I also love you.
Fine, but I want twice as much tugging because you want it so much. Supply and demand, baby.
Don't ask for what you can't handle.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the spinchip
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:10 pm
by D.o.S.
Teej212 wrote:vidret- im chill as a cucumber, however I definitely envision this having a potential to tail spin (spin
) into something more sinister. I know for a fact there is a way to copy code from the chips that is pretty easy, and once someone does a video about that say hello to mass cloning of these dsp pedals
I , for one, look forward to the Behringer BAAARP