P&W gear manufacturers

[Jwar]

I will say this. I am a God fearing Catholic man that goes to church every Sunday, lives his life the best he can and does what I can for my God. Does that make me a bad business person? No. Will I label my company as Christian or with any religious affiliation? No. It makes no difference what my believe system is. My works speaks for itself.

This is a silly thread. I can understand it somewhat but on the other hand you're just pointing out your own prejudices. If you don't like a builder because of the shit work ethic IE JHS or their occult like actions IE JHS, then don't buy from them. JHS in particular I would NOT even call Christian, they are Charismatic Christians, which is a very, very cult like way of life. I know many myself and in fact was involved in the same church as they were for a long time.

I find it highly offensive that people are so presumptuous and bigoted.

[zRobertez]

Man. I don't believe in God, but the large majority of the earths population does. .

Does not mean Christian

I will not go into hobby lobby

Shit. I had to go there yesterday for Christmas shopping. Bad idea?


I don't like the list either. There are a few guys you don't hear much good about from here but some of the other in the list, they just make a larger variety of overdrives, not necessarily that they are bad peeps.

[Ghost Hip]

yeah because a gay pedal builder is the same thing, with the same amount of advantages handed to them in our world, as someone connected to a megachurch...

ah, the classic "it's okay to discriminate against these people, but not the others because of my limited understanding of history" double standard. Can you tell me what inherent advantages these "megachurch" folks receive that no one else does? Give us some solid evidence of the extra rights and privileges that are granted to all of these people (since you are the one grouping them all together) that are not granted to anyone else. What sort of bonus check is everyone that attends these churches getting in the mail each month? What kind of secret handshake do they use to cut in line at the DMV? Otherwise, you're just using strawmen to justify your garden variety bigotry and hate-mongering.

Tax exemption when they buy gear 'for the church' at their local guitar center. If they get someone at the church to fax GC on their churches stationary approving the purchase. Which I have seen done for gifts to family members, and personal purchases that would happen to be used at some point in the future at church. In Michigan, that is an automatic six percent discount that no one else gets. And almost always they will ask for more of a discount beyond the tax exemption. I had no issue helping good folks getting good prices on gear, I did it with a smile on my face. However, I cannot deny that those who were strongly connected to a specific church got cheaper prices on gear.

And listen, I see your point, grouping people together and generalizing them is a dangerous thing. Bad shit happens when you dehumanize folks. All groups have their advantages in certain situations, though. I am not necessarily disagreeing with you here, just made me think of a singular privilege I have seen of those that are in good with the church they attend.

[Jwar]

So the fuck what if they got a discount? Did that hurt you in anyway? NO.

I used to work at Whole Foods and a ton of people got tax exemptions that I didn't understand. The United Nations of Islam being the biggest I didn't understand because they would openly abuse it.

It's not my call though. Not my money or my company. So why does it matter? Because I'm jealous?

[Chankgeez]

And speaking of Whole Foods, they're able to price products cheaper than any independent natural food store because of their buying power. They purchase stuff in such large quantities, they're able to get massive discounts from distributors/manufacturers/producers. They often push for even greater discounts too. (They seem to feel like they're entitled to.) Where's the fairness there?

[Disarm D'arcy]

Sounds communist to me.

[Jwar]

And speaking of Whole Foods, they're able to price products cheaper than any independent natural food store because of their buying power. They purchase stuff in such large quantities, they're able to get massive discounts from distributors. They often push for even greater discounts too. (They seem to feel like they're entitled to.) Where's the fairness there?

What does that have to do with anything? I said I "used" to work there. I didn't run the place. I don't agree with their business practices and ultimately I left because of what a shitty company they are.

This thread just irks me though. I get the whole "I'm an atheist" and I don't judge people based on it. In fact some of my best friends don't believe in God or some of my favorite pedal builders openly don't believe. Should that stop me from associating with them or buying from them? I don't think so. It's every man or woman's choice to believe what they want.

Make a list of shit companies. Christian or otherwise. That's a better idea. Walrus makes great pedals. I could give a fuck less what they believe.

[Ghost Hip]

So the fuck what if they got a discount? Did that hurt you in anyway? NO.

I used to work at Whole Foods and a ton of people got tax exemptions that I didn't understand. The United Nations of Islam being the biggest I didn't understand because they would openly abuse it.

It's not my call though. Not my money or my company. So why does it matter? Because I'm jealous?

Dude, I am not saying they hurt me. I am just saying thats a privilege they have that other people do not. I was in no way attacking them when I made that post and your strong words towards me for pointing out one tiny little privilege is sort of frightening.

Afterall, my discount on gear from GC is fucking ridiculous, if you knew how much it cost me to get a malekko pedal... I have no position to put people down for getting discounts. I just think it is important to know what privileges one has in certain situations to act gracefully in the presence of others.

[Chankgeez]

And speaking of Whole Foods, they're able to price products cheaper than any independent natural food store because of their buying power. They purchase stuff in such large quantities, they're able to get massive discounts from distributors. They often push for even greater discounts too. (They seem to feel like they're entitled to.) Where's the fairness there?

What does that have to do with anything?

I didn't say it had to do with anything. You just mentioned "Whole Foods". We can definitely agree that they're a shitty company though.

[Jwar]

I get that. And I apologize for coming off too strong. It just makes my blood boil that open discrimination is the topic of the day here at ilf. I thought we were all equals.

[Moose]

I was raised in a traditional Catholic family. Although I don't consider myself Catholic (or even religious at all, really), I do respect the core belief system in place and most other branches of Christianity.



Personally, I'll judge a company for their products first, customer service second. I don't really take religion into account, as it doesn't tend to affect my purchases. If I hear that a company has questionable/unethical business practices, then of course that influences the likelihood of me buying from them in the future.




I think what has to be kept in mind is that just because a company is open about their religion, that doesn't automatically make them assholes. It's possible to be an asshole without having any religious beliefs whatsoever.

[bigchiefbc]

Holy shit! I skipped over this thread for a few days because I'm so used to skipping threads that have "P&W" in the title. Then I saw how many posts this was getting and opened it up to see it was a fucking shit show.

This kind if bullshit fighting is not fucking needed on this board. Fuck, I really want to like everyone on this board, and nothing is sure to make a forum degenerate into fucking hating each other's guts like a religion thread.

So fucking quit it, everyone. Seriously. Fucking stop.

[retinal orbita]

This thread just irks me though. I get the whole "I'm an atheist" and I don't judge people based on it. In fact some of my best friends don't believe in God or some of my favorite pedal builders openly don't believe. Should that stop me from associating with them or buying from them? I don't think so. It's every man or woman's choice to believe what they want.

I think this is a huge oversimplification as to why people have an issue with these builders, (mega)churches, etc. It's not a question of "belief" in god that is causing this sort of thread, it's the actions and motivations behind specific elements of them. For me, I don't give a shit what people believe, as long as it doesn't trample on others ability to live their lives and there are sects of Christianity that obviously do just that. And you can say about, like, "these aren't my people" regarding Westborough or anti abortion protesters or people that protest gay pride parades on a macro scale or JHS on a micro scale but those things are all related to this thread. That is not "discrimination", that's reality. Anyone claiming Catholics are discriminated against in America is being ridiculous,

I wouldn't give a shit if someone was Muslim but if they were a card carrying IS supporter I'd rethink that too. Same with a lot of things. And frankly, for the people saying "this thread shouldn't exist" there are people that do base their purchasing based around ethics (when possible and within reason, I need gas to heat my home and I can't drill for it myself). If it turned out Doug Fender (or whatever) designed electric guitars for the Nazi's I'd have to rethink my Jazzmaster purchase too. I forget the name, but there's some pasta maker who is like, notoriously homophobic, you better believe my wife ain't letting me buy that pasta anymore..... and I wouldn't buy anything associated with scientology I mean fuck that amirite lads? Oh shit, I did see Rock Of Ages though....

Full disclaimer, I was baptised Catholic but am non practising, and I worked in a Salvation Army shelter for a year coming out of school and never saw anything but kind non-discriminating people working there full of compassion with a very difficult street population consisting of mostly crack users, so I see both sides of the coin here, but obviously people's distaste is not unwarranted.

[MEC]

I agree that ILF should be all inclusive and we shouldn't go out of our way to try and put
people or groups of people down or make them feel uncomfortable just because we have
a difference of opinion.

That being said, it is my personal opinion that religious bias and bias due to
race, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, medical issues etc. are very different issues because
religion or lack thereof, is a CHOICE.

We are all free to choose our religion. You can't choose race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality etc..

If I choose to believe the moon is made of cheese and someone disagrees, that doesn't make them an asshole.





*I would definitely buy a pedal from someone who believed the moon was made of cheese.

[Dark Barn]

Christians are one of the main demographics always at the forefront of the Culture Wars here in the US. Obviously its not every single Christian, but cmon, it would be disingenuous to pretend you have no idea what I'm talking about.

It's also disengenous for Christians to meddle in other peoples business and then claim discrimination when non Christians choose not to buy their things.

Abortion, gay marriage, health coverage for contraceptives, evolution in the class room, the pledge of allegiance, on and on.

jwr I personally like you, and to me I feel no conflict between my fondness for you and my distaste for companies that use their religion as part of their marketing strategy.