AxAxSxS wrote:maybe I'm not reading it the same way you are, but I don't think anyone here is being disrespectful. Just commenting on the business strategy myself. I would probably respect the guy asking not to post pics also, especially if I planned on buying more stuff down the road. On the other hand, I might be a lot less inclined to buy it, not knowing whats going on with it ahead of time. that's all I'm saying.
A dunwich build is something I really want to pursue, mainly because I'm a fan of his build shots. the quality is obvious and the gas is strong as a result.
If ya'll want a gut shot of a Hovercraft..............just imagine a Jet City or Epi So Cal or Peavey Windsor gut shot with a few components, new pots and leads neatly added to the stock board.
It's EXACTLY what you would imagine it to look like.
He's not dropping in new boards, or completely hand re-wiring anything........His service is simple. New cosmetics, new voicing, sometimes more power. that's it.
Ya'll think too much about shit that really doesn't matter. imo.
wildebelor wrote:If Jet City were going to pursue a law suit, I don't think they would be promoting Hovercraft on their Facebook page.
That's very true, if anything they could probably use the advertising from it.
wildebelor wrote:And I totally agree, Dunwich builds are on a whole different level!
They are beautiful inside and out; built like a tank and will outlast probably all of us.
There is a lot of care, time and effort put into building an amp of that quality from scratch and it shows.
But as I said, I love the idea of refurbishing an amp with custom options etc.
All I know is: they sound awesome!
Tis true! I currently own one, have owned another (the aforementioned "inspired by" amp in my previous post. His work is absolutely top notch.
Is that why your starting a business doing the same thing with speaker cabs...
I do gotta agree they sound awesome! So did my Verellen Modded Jet City JCA20 that I had.
Iommic Pope wrote:
Skip, you rule. You hate people so much, you're willing to discredit all human progress, its awesome.
Ancient Astronaught wrote:Then there's the Freekish Blues reason: your doing an extremely simple mod on an inexpensive product and rebranding it as your own with an updated visual aesthetic at three times the price. He did this though without disclosing the true nature of his product, which is truly the only difference between Freekish Blues and Hovercraft in my mind.
Hovercraft has always, to my knowledge, promoted their business model as rebuilt amplifiers, which is a very different thing than the Freekish Blues bit you're suggesting. Everyone knows they're modded amps, right?
Now, if homefry doesn't want people to post gut shots because of how little modding is being done beyond the aesthetics that's kind of lame, but
A) people will always pay a premium for the aesthetics (which, I think we can all agree, are awesome -- I know you didn't trade for that Matamp because you were unhappy with your clone "inspired by" amp with an updated visual aesthetic for three times the price, right?)
and
B) that's far from the Freekish blues claim.
Yes they have, that's what I mean by the section of my quote above I left in there, Freekish Blues hid it, Hovercraft does not. Never said they did.
Actually you are incorrect about the Matamp acquisition my friend. I needed a bass amp, the amp I traded for it was only 100w and when pushed to gigging levels was too dirty for my liking, when the opportunity came up to trade it to a good friend of mine for an amp with twice the power and an extremely similar preamp I jumped on the opportunity. It had absolutely nothing to do with brand recognition or visual aesthetic, because both of which I preferred on the amp I traded more so than the one I received.
As far as my "inspired by" amp, when it claimed it had the preamp of an Orange / Matamp and the power amp section of a Model T. It wasn't "voiced similar" they were literally exactly what they claimed to be. Bax stack / Depth pre and Ultralinear power amp and all....
It's a connotation by proximity "the only difference between freekish and Hovercraft is that FB isn't disclosing the nature of the product" implies that Hovercraft are similarly nutella + nailpolish douches. Which they may be, but I don't know, and you've already said you've never dealt with them, so you don't know either.
inspired by as in -- yo matamp stoner rock 420 blazin' doom doom doom C standard, dawg. Not in a bad way, just in a specific aesthetic way. The same way the Dwarvenauts are definitely catering to the "OrMat looks siiick" crew.
*with the exception of pedals, Nick doesn't make pedals that look like retarded 8 bit martians. And, obviously, one is a custom-made amplifier of mass destruction and the other is a modded jet city.
Last edited by D.o.S. on Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
AxAxSxS wrote:maybe I'm not reading it the same way you are, but I don't think anyone here is being disrespectful. Just commenting on the business strategy myself. I would probably respect the guy asking not to post pics also, especially if I planned on buying more stuff down the road. On the other hand, I might be a lot less inclined to buy it, not knowing whats going on with it ahead of time. that's all I'm saying.
I was more responding to Goroth than your statement, which I completely understand where you're coming from.
D.o.S. wrote:It's a connotation by proximity "the only difference between freekish and Hovercraft is that FB isn't disclosing the nature of the product" implies that Hovercraft are similarly nutella + nailpolish douches. Which they may be, but I don't know, and you've already said you've never dealt with them, so you don't know either.
Okay yeah I can see how you could come to that conclusion. I'm saying that they basically are using the same ideaology, just without the goop and douchery, and that they are disclosing that it is a recycled product. Freekish took 35$ pedals made a couple minor component changes, gooped the board to hide that it was a joyo, repainted the enclosure to look more TGP, then charged $200. Hovercraft takes $150 amps, makes a couple component changes as well as adding a a pot here or there, refinishes the headshell and faceplate to achieve a more ormat friendly aesthetic, then charges $650. Other than hiding the donor and the goop what is the difference? People raved about the FB pedal's sound before they found out what was going on, then when they found out they had been ripped they got all pissy. With Hovercraft he's being upfront about everything, so they know what they are getting into. I know what I would be getting into if I bought one, I'm just choosing not too.
I also never claimed he's a douche, as you said I've never dealt with them.
Iommic Pope wrote:
Skip, you rule. You hate people so much, you're willing to discredit all human progress, its awesome.
D.o.S. wrote:It's a connotation by proximity "the only difference between freekish and Hovercraft is that FB isn't disclosing the nature of the product" implies that Hovercraft are similarly nutella + nailpolish douches. Which they may be, but I don't know, and you've already said you've never dealt with them, so you don't know either.
Okay yeah I can see how you could come to that conclusion. I'm saying that they basically are using the same ideaology, just without the goop and douchery, and that they are disclosing that it is a recycled product. Freekish took 35$ pedals made a couple minor component changes, gooped the board to hide that it was a joyo, repainted the enclosure to look more TGP, then charged $200. Hovercraft takes $150 amps, makes a couple component changes as well as adding a a pot here or there, refinishes the headshell and faceplate to achieve a more ormat friendly aesthetic, then charges $650. Other than hiding the donor and the goop what is the difference? People raved about the FB pedal's sound before they found out what was going on, then when they found out they had been ripped they got all pissy. With Hovercraft he's being upfront about everything, so they know what they are getting into. I know what I would be getting into if I bought one, I'm just choosing not too.
I also never claimed he's a douche, as you said I've never dealt with them.
Oh, no, I meant that bringing in Freekish as a comparison implies that you think Hovercraft is douchy. Not that you actually think he's a douche -- it could just read that way.
I think the approach makes all the difference, personally. Freekish originally claimed it was a unique, basement-brewed circuit. That's a far cry from "we mod and rehouse amps."
D.o.S. wrote:Oh, no, I meant that bringing in Freekish as a comparison implies that you think Hovercraft is douchy. Not that you actually think he's a douche -- it could just read that way.
I think the approach makes all the difference, personally. Freekish originally claimed it was a unique, basement-brewed circuit. That's a far cry from "we mod and rehouse amps."
Ohhhhhh DERP! Yeah I'm definitely not calling Hovercraft Douchey, but I could def see where my comments could lean that way.
Your exactly right! Atleast with Hovercraft your going in knowing what your getting, which does make all the difference.
Iommic Pope wrote:
Skip, you rule. You hate people so much, you're willing to discredit all human progress, its awesome.
Guy makes pedal for 600. TGP goes nuts.
TGPer degoops + clones the pedal, sells the clones for $300
TGPer gets pissed when people post degooped gut shots of the clone.
I understand Hovercraft wants to protect their "secrets" but you can find anything and everything he does to them, with schematics and instructions, right here:
Part of posting guts is to keep you and your audience honest. Honest about the craftsmanship, honest about what is actually inside the amp. I know that Nial has asked his customers not to post guts and thats his call. For the most part there is always the fear that someone is going to copy what you do, and do it for cheaper. So I can understand that feeling. However, posting guts is what earns you respect, the respect that others will not cheaply copy what you build.
In the end anyone can buy you stuff, open it up, clone it, and be on with it. Does not matter if you goop it or sand the component labels down, that only slows down the process. Basically you have no true way of avoiding it if someone wants to do it. You cant own the circuit (since no one is going to patent anything in a pedal or amp nowadays) so there is nothing you can do to prevent it. You can only protect your image and your name and interestingly your PCB or turret layout.
That's because the audible difference between say 50 and 100 watts is 3 db, which is the smallest audible difference humans will notice.
So for 20-50 watts... you get the idea hahaha
