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dubkitty wrote:and conversely, see how the far-left cities can cope with their social dysfunction without the rest of the country to bail them out.

actually, i think the optimum solution would be to spin off the metropoli--New York, Boston, Miami, Chicago, San Francisco, LA, etc.--into independent city-states so they'd have to function without the support of the rest of their states. this would end the tyranny of the urbanites and allow the rest of the country to live in peace.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0[/youtube]

Brief thing on the tyranny of urbanites:

What really even is "urban"? Maybe this is influenced by my point of view, but it sure seems that there's suburbs back to back between every city in America. Endless mini-malls lining the roads as far as the eye can see. The idyllic countryside viewpoint of the nation is like, long gone. Now, there's a fucking wal-mart in every shithole town. Where is the line drawn between an urban area and a rural area? We have the conveniences of modern "urban" life everywhere now, including the almighty equalizer, mass media. With a satellite TV and an internet connection, it's impossible to say that someone living in the depths of Alaska wouldn't be just as inundated with dysfunction as the rest of us. Even in Brooks, CA (pop. 66 circa 2005), there was TV, internet, a convenience store, and there was even a fucking casino across the street from my dad's house, and I'm not sure it can get more socially dysfunctional than that.

I can't think of anything to say dubs that either wouldn't sound patronizing or would properly address the false sense of liberalist oppression that you're feeling. But believe me, if you ever settle in a red state for a while you'd be hard-pressed to find any liberalist oppression.

Here everyone is out buying more guns and emergency supplies for when the abortionists invade to steal the money from hard-working families to give to drug-addicted pedophiles, or whatever. Fox news, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, etc. are seen as just the least liberally biased people in the media. In order to be more small business friendly the county drives away higher paying jobs so as to not raise the competitive wage. Bars can't allow their clientele to be able to be seen by the public (most bars have 12ft high fences that you can't see through in order to conform). And DANCING IS ILLEGAL (j/k both footloose and high-school musical were filmed here though). Live in a red state for a while and then tell me about the liberal ideological oppression of society.

theavondon wrote:Brief thing on the tyranny of urbanites:

What really even is "urban"? Maybe this is influenced by my point of view, but it sure seems that there's suburbs back to back between every city in America. Endless mini-malls lining the roads as far as the eye can see. The idyllic countryside viewpoint of the nation is like, long gone. Now, there's a fucking wal-mart in every shithole town. Where is the line drawn between an urban area and a rural area? We have the conveniences of modern "urban" life everywhere now, including the almighty equalizer, mass media. With a satellite TV and an internet connection, it's impossible to say that someone living in the depths of Alaska wouldn't be just as inundated with dysfunction as the rest of us. Even in Brooks, CA (pop. 66 circa 2005), there was TV, internet, a convenience store, and there was even a fucking casino across the street from my dad's house, and I'm not sure it can get more socially dysfunctional than that.

There's no doubt about that. There are rural areas all across the country, dude.

no shit. i just drove from California to Illinois last month, and i spent about 5% of my driving time in anywhere that could be called a city.

Seriously. I'd drop some cash on a wager that, a half-hour outside of major metropoli in at least one directon, you'll find desolate nothingness.

Yeah, I measure distance in time. Sorry.

Yeah, there are a lot of rural ass areas even close to Manhattan, and as a city-dweller I feel like I'm holding them up and the rest of the state, contrary to what dubkitty said. I don't see how I'm 'tyrannical.'
Dubs, what did the social dysfunction thing mean?

Congrats on missing my point!

the whole constellation of urban problems: a huge population of people who have no interest in anything but sucking welfare funds, single-parent families as a social norm, rampant criminality that's tolerated by minority communities in the name of racial solidarity, political corruption and one-party rule, the crushing weight of illegal immigration that's destroying California, gang violence, heroin, AIDS, rejection of any morality other than "gimme what i want because it's 'fair'," the whole behavioral-sink reality of urban America.

theavondon wrote:Congrats on missing my point!

not missing the point, but finding your point inaccurate and irrelevant. the fact of the matter is that the "Blue" states typically have a large city or two voting Democrat and the rest of the state solidly Republican, as is the case in California, Illinois, Louisiana, and Washington.

dubkitty wrote:the whole constellation of urban problems: a huge population of people who have no interest in anything but sucking welfare funds, single-parent families as a social norm, rampant criminality that's tolerated by minority communities in the name of racial solidarity, political corruption and one-party rule, the crushing weight of illegal immigration that's destroying California, gang violence, heroin, AIDS, rejection of any morality other than "gimme what i want because it's 'fair'," the whole behavioral-sink reality of urban America.

I hate to be disagreeable, but most of that stuff can easily apply to any rural area.

greyscales wrote:

dubkitty wrote:the whole constellation of urban problems: a huge population of people who have no interest in anything but sucking welfare funds, single-parent families as a social norm, rampant criminality that's tolerated by minority communities in the name of racial solidarity, political corruption and one-party rule, the crushing weight of illegal immigration that's destroying California, gang violence, heroin, AIDS, rejection of any morality other than "gimme what i want because it's 'fair'," the whole behavioral-sink reality of urban America.

I hate to be disagreeable, but most of that stuff can easily apply to any rural area.

Yup, just replace heroin with meth and that's any rural area.

dubkitty wrote:

theavondon wrote:Congrats on missing my point!

not missing the point, but finding your point inaccurate and irrelevant. the fact of the matter is that the "Blue" states typically have a large city or two voting Democrat and the rest of the state solidly Republican, as is the case in California, Illinois, Louisiana, and Washington.

And Maine. And Vermont. And Mass.

Not that I'm complaining, mind, but collective urbanization is a myth.


Frankly, I think a lot of attitudes born and bred in the rural wastelands wouldn't survive being urbanized--that is, living in a heterogeneous community of different races, ethnicities, and orientations.

and vice-versa.

dubkitty wrote:the whole constellation of urban problems: a huge population of people who have no interest in anything but sucking welfare funds, single-parent families as a social norm, rampant criminality that's tolerated by minority communities in the name of racial solidarity, political corruption and one-party rule, the crushing weight of illegal immigration that's destroying California, gang violence, heroin, AIDS, rejection of any morality other than "gimme what i want because it's 'fair'," the whole behavioral-sink reality of urban America.

In most cities, for each one of the characters you described there are 10 wealthy individuals paying state AND city taxes to support the rest of the state. I'm one of 45% of people in a state cramped into .0001 % of its space paying for taxes to be distributed throughout the state. I'm not bitching, but I'm just saying my counties taxes affect all other areas in the state way more than their taxes affect me. If you want to talk about social dysfunction that's fine, but (at least in NY state) the rest of the state couldn't survive without us city-dwellers living and working shoulder to shoulder, so I would re-think the whole us seceding into city-states argument.
And dude, aside from the conservative paranoia that you mentioned, some middle of the country rural areas are decked out with meth-heads, domestic violence hate crime etc. I'm not going to go on because where isn't there a place that somebody could complain about?
Also, it seemed like you spoke from personal experience (immigration, gang violence) stuff that doesn't affect most of urban america.
drawing this back to voting in general, what you mentioned about one party rule IS American politics and voting. It's not just an Urban thing.
No hard feelings here, don't want to get you or anybody else riled up