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Oh yeah, it took me a bit to understand Crowley in the Eight Lectures on Yoga. It helped me to read (in my head) in the voice of a wisecracking english gentleman. That way I knew when he was making a joke and when he wasn't. I had to read and re read Spare a few times to get all of it. It was kind of like reading poetry. It mostly sounds like crazy ravings, but if you just get into the groove, it makes a lot of sense and all the insanity points towards something between the lines. I have enough spiritual grounding and direction (I think. But do any of us, really?) with the things I already know about, but I need something pragmatic, and I think that sigil magic does the trick. Maybe I'll just experiment with it and set my goals small so as not to cause too much chaos in my life (no pun intended )

Yea, everything has a cost. Start small.

You're still opening (opened?) a door that is next to impossible to close, but no point in jumping in insanely, especially if you have any semblance of normalcy in your life or want it.

Prometheus Rising and other works by Robert Anton Wilson. Legendary stuff.

rfurtkamp wrote:Yea, everything has a cost. Start small.

You're still opening (opened?) a door that is next to impossible to close, but no point in jumping in insanely, especially if you have any semblance of normalcy in your life or want it.

I haven't cared about being "normal" in a long long time. I've done my own take on various rituals and invocations, never without results. Some of the invocations produced unexpected or unintended results, but in the long run, they were .... necessary results.

darthbatman wrote:Prometheus Rising and other works by Robert Anton Wilson. Legendary stuff.

thanks! I've wanted to investigate some of his stuff!

Yep, I mention it simply because I try to remind folks that there's a cost and an impact of doing this stuff (or if somebody reading this in a year sees it without context).

I'm a responsible evildoer!

Yep, I mention it simply because I try to remind folks that there's a cost and an impact of doing this stuff (or if somebody reading this in a year sees it without context).

I'm a responsible evildoer!

gunslinger_burrito wrote:

darthbatman wrote:Prometheus Rising and other works by Robert Anton Wilson. Legendary stuff.

thanks! I've wanted to investigate some of his stuff!

Prometheus Rising is pretty tight.
It's whacky in a few places, but it's a good read.

If you are digging sigil work and you haven't already, check out liber null/psyconaut by Peter Carroll.
For something to break through the "impenetrable " wall that is Crowley I would suggest any/everything by Lon Milo Duquette

Oh yeah, my friends have suggested Duquette a few times....

Let me be the lone "not a Duquette fan" - he's in the 'won't discuss certain things' camp, which I do generally get - however, the majority of the work seems to be designed not to elucidate the system but to puff up the promotional machine.

He's the Donald Michael Kraig of modern Thelema in that respect.

rfurtkamp wrote:Let me be the lone "not a Duquette fan" - he's in the 'won't discuss certain things' camp, which I do generally get - however, the majority of the work seems to be designed not to elucidate the system but to puff up the promotional machine.

He's the Donald Michael Kraig of modern Thelema in that respect.

There are reasons for secrecy. If you REALY want to know the "secrets" you can find them online and in plain English.
The reason for the secrecy is that without a good base in the system it probably would not make much sense.
Also, the REAL illumination is not in the secrets but in the path to the secrets.
I am with you a little onDuQuette being kind of a hype man for thelema, but he is pretty good at putting some of Crowleys more complex ideas and writings into plan English. This is why I recomend his stuff. If you buy the book of Thoth I recommend purchasing Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot by DuQuette at the same time.
But yeah,Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Love is the Law, Love under Will.

There are no secrets anymore. You can create your own ritual and it can be as powerful as you make-it-up to be.
Even eating food is a ritual, that's why you have people living and not eating. What is the basic state, really?
Hard to know when your life is engulfed by tons of bs rituals society does, that keep you away from it.

The reasons for the secrecy are a little different than that - you can't teach some things, the person has to discover them.

And the basic stuff isn't online in unmangled form, unfortunately - they all pretty much derive from King and related bootlegs, and nobody ever asks why they're different than the Warburg versions!

rfurtkamp wrote:The reasons for the secrecy are a little different than that - you can't teach some things, the person has to discover them.

That is what I said but with different words.
In fact a central secret of the OTO is writen out plainly in the book of lies but without the proper bassis in "magick"
It doesn't matter.

It's also within pages of the claim that it's published openly in at least one place in ABA.

English schoolboy snickering ensues.