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snipelfritz wrote: Contemporary revolutions (The French one onwards) have resulted in nothing but violence and corrupt governments.

And the introduced illegality of such personal freedoms as solicitation of prostitution and public defecation.

Also i hate when im up all night doing coke and get paranoid about going home so i put it in an altoids tin because "thats the best idea ever dude cause nobody can tell its coke" but am too caught up in what a good idea it is to remember to get all the existing altoids powder out of it and go for a snort the next day and FUCKING DIE.

SPACERITUAL wrote:Also i hate when im up all night doing coke and get paranoid about going home so i put it in an altoids tin because "thats the best idea ever dude cause nobody can tell its coke" but am too caught up in what a good idea it is to remember to get all the existing altoids powder out of it and go for a snort the other day and FUCKING DIE.

BC,...I'm not opposed to moderation. It's one thing to provide for your family as you are doing. It's another thing to turn your family into consumerist zombies. But I'm ain't having any kids so I'm not too worried about that.

snipelfritz wrote:

warwick.hoy wrote:I'm basically just saying that you don't need a Mercedes, an H2 to haul your yacht, a 60 inch flatscreen 1080p TV, a giant opulent McMansion, a trophy wife and three spoiled brats to be happy. At least I don't need those things to be happy anyway.

Do I wish I could go out and buy a vintage SVT at the drop of a hat? Fuck yeah, but I don't have that luxuray. I have to save and make do with what I have. But I don't get depressed over that shit.

But for the most part Americans seem duped into the blind overkill consumerism culture that has been perped on us. How do you get all these things? Go into 1000's of dollars into debt (or put your parents into debt) with a college education, graduate and assume a subservient role in the workforce and incur 100's of 1000's of dollars in debt (ie "buy" a house,...you see where that landed this economy) and hope that you can get promoted and climb the ladder before your job gets outsourced.

[puts on indignation hat] FUCK ALL THAT SHIT. This is actually an appropriate topic for this thread. I hate consumer culture. I hate being a consumer. I hate that there are things that I want and I'm willing to fork over whatever price Steve Jobs/Bill Gates or whoever attaches to 20 cents worth of parts and labor. But I try to temper that with not being overly opulent.

The alternative is to starve I guess.

So, what are you going to do about it? I hate it when people whine about abstract concepts as if there's some evil mastermind behind it all. If you're going to trash something, come up with a viable alternative that could be realistically achieved over a period of time. Same goes for the Tea Party. Sure, nobody likes paying taxes, but if we don't, the deficits are just going to keep growing.

I don't have an across the board alternative. People's priorities have to change and I can't change that for them.

What I do is live simply and think about purchases I'm about to make and avoid going into debt at all costs. Can I buy something that is mass produced for cheap, or get something that is handmade by some guy trying to put food on his table for a few dollars more? I choose to buy off of the guy trying to put food on the table. This is true of effects, it's the reason I'm on ILF.

If I don't have to give a bank money,...I won't. Banks aren't in the business of handing out money,...they are in the business of making money.

You want to talk about evil masterminds? What about those that orchestrated the subprime mortgage/housing loan/toxic asset fiasco that has this economy in a downward spiral and has screwed millions of people out their homes. That wasn't an accident,...that was a few greedy people finding a loophole and exploiting it so they could transfer wealth from the poor and middle class into their own pockets.

Abstract? The middle class is shrinking and the rift between the filthy rich and the just plain filthy is growing. That's not abstract.

warwick.hoy wrote:Abstract? The middle class is shrinking and the rift between the filthy rich and the just plain filthy is growing. That's not abstract.

This is completely true. Likely to be the eventual downfall of this chunk of the globe, I honestly thought it was going to happen a few years ago but things seem to have gotten better and by gotten better I mean us poorfolk have more nachos and Buttwiper than we did two summers ago. The cycle of distraction begins anew.

SPACERITUAL wrote:If you dont like it kill yourself. Maybe ill get your job!

god dammit that is one beautiful ending to a good rant.

warwick.hoy wrote:BC,...I'm not opposed to moderation. It's one thing to provide for your family as you are doing. It's another thing to turn your family into consumerist zombies. But I'm ain't having any kids so I'm not too worried about that.

snipelfritz wrote:

warwick.hoy wrote:I'm basically just saying that you don't need a Mercedes, an H2 to haul your yacht, a 60 inch flatscreen 1080p TV, a giant opulent McMansion, a trophy wife and three spoiled brats to be happy. At least I don't need those things to be happy anyway.

Do I wish I could go out and buy a vintage SVT at the drop of a hat? Fuck yeah, but I don't have that luxuray. I have to save and make do with what I have. But I don't get depressed over that shit.

But for the most part Americans seem duped into the blind overkill consumerism culture that has been perped on us. How do you get all these things? Go into 1000's of dollars into debt (or put your parents into debt) with a college education, graduate and assume a subservient role in the workforce and incur 100's of 1000's of dollars in debt (ie "buy" a house,...you see where that landed this economy) and hope that you can get promoted and climb the ladder before your job gets outsourced.

[puts on indignation hat] FUCK ALL THAT SHIT. This is actually an appropriate topic for this thread. I hate consumer culture. I hate being a consumer. I hate that there are things that I want and I'm willing to fork over whatever price Steve Jobs/Bill Gates or whoever attaches to 20 cents worth of parts and labor. But I try to temper that with not being overly opulent.

The alternative is to starve I guess.

So, what are you going to do about it? I hate it when people whine about abstract concepts as if there's some evil mastermind behind it all. If you're going to trash something, come up with a viable alternative that could be realistically achieved over a period of time. Same goes for the Tea Party. Sure, nobody likes paying taxes, but if we don't, the deficits are just going to keep growing.

I don't have an across the board alternative. People's priorities have to change and I can't change that for them.

What I do is live simply and think about purchases I'm about to make and avoid going into debt at all costs. Can I buy something that is mass produced for cheap, or get something that is handmade by some guy trying to put food on his table for a few dollars more? I choose to buy off of the guy trying to put food on the table. This is true of effects, it's the reason I'm on ILF.

If I don't have to give a bank money,...I won't. Banks aren't in the business of handing out money,...they are in the business of making money.

You want to talk about evil masterminds? What about those that orchestrated the subprime mortgage/housing loan/toxic asset fiasco that has this economy in a downward spiral and has screwed millions of people out their homes. That wasn't an accident,...that was a few greedy people finding a loophole and exploiting it so they could transfer wealth from the poor and middle class into their own pockets.

Abstract? The middle class is shrinking and the rift between the filthy rich and the just plain filthy is growing. That's not abstract.

I absolutely agree that the mortgage crisis was engineered, but I think there's a big difference of taking advantage of circumstances and the manifestation of a world which only exists to serve the creator. The concept of a middle class only exists due to the rise of commercialization, so how can that same force be destroying it?

The "consumer culture" is an abstract, and a subjective, variable one at that. You use highly active words like "duped" and "perped" which conjure the image of some grand conspiracy that rules us all from the shadows. That's my only qualm, the oversimplification of such expansive, all-inclusive issues and the refusal to accept the absurdity of our socio-economic/political world.

YO ILF IM HAPPY FOR YOU IMA LET YALL FINISH....but srsly people are stoops and were buying houses they knew they couldnt afford and defaulted on their shit. I dont care what engineering was done, there was a massive amount of consumer stupidity that figured into it. No conspiracy...no illuminati...just stupid people falling for stupid shit.....um....OF ALL TIME!!!!

SPACERITUAL wrote:YO ILF IM HAPPY FOR YOU IMA LET YALL FINISH....but srsly people are stoops and were buying houses they knew they couldnt afford and defaulted on their shit. I dont care what engineering was done, there was a massive amount of consumer stupiditythat figured into that. No conspiracy...no illuminati...just stupid people falling for stupid shit.....um....OF ALL TIME!!!!

Yes and no. There were people who defaulted on their mortgages and were even expected to do so. However, certain corporations created mortgage backed securities which hid the fact that these people were likely to default and passed them on to other suckers. They insured themselves against their own crappy product. All the while, the investment world became an incestuous cesspool of horizontal integration which led to the severity of the collapse when the mortgages went sour. There used to be government regulations against these things, but they were removed in the nineties for whatever reason(sure, corporate lobbying was a part of that).

So you're right about the consumer stupidity, but it was the engineering that caused that stupidity to screw us all over. It shouldn't have affected everyone in the way that it did or at all. Responsible, realistic investment banking can be beneficial to everyone involved and carry minimal risks. Sometimes it takes a neutral body to enforce some reasonable regulations *cough* the federal government *cough* to keep the whole system from buckling like it has.

I think that explains about 10% of it. 40% is other complex economic theories that I don't understand and the other 50% is due to the utter fucking chaos that is our economy.

EDIT: I'm slightly irritated that I'm such a nerd for this kind of stuff but I can't do anything with it. I don't like to suck dick enough to work in journalism nor wave my dick in people's faces to work in politics.

My apologies for the over simplification.

My biggest gripe is with banks and the credit machine.

I'm not going to nor do I have the power to dictate what people spend their money on. People just don't make the same decisions I would make. People are different,...I should avoid broad generalizations. I get it.

& Spacey people are rubes,...there is no denying that. And that's part of the problem. I'm hazy on details but the schemes were legal, extremely unethical and so convoluted that I can't type a post that won't become TL;DR.

That consumer stupidity is what I'm against.

SPACERITUAL wrote:YO ILF IM HAPPY FOR YOU IMA LET YALL FINISH....but srsly people are stoops and were buying houses they knew they couldnt afford and defaulted on their shit. I dont care what engineering was done, there was a massive amount of consumer stupidity that figured into it. No conspiracy...no illuminati...just stupid people falling for stupid shit.....um....OF ALL TIME!!!!

You can't really blame the consumer for that one. It was completely engineered to prey on said stoopidity since banks were making mad money on every deal, without care about pending defaults because of the pyramid scheme nature of it all.

It used to be:

Fool: "whoa I want that house"
Bank: "you can't afford it"
Fool: "dammit!"

That turned into:

Fool: "whoa I want that house"
Bank: "sign here and you'll get TWO!"
Fool: "omgwtflolz!"

I tried to buy a house but quickly realized what was going on, so I didn't. Then when shit got real I lost my job since I worked cunstruction. Whoops!

Actually it's everybody's fault. Except mine.

Suggested Watching:

Plunder: The Crime of our Times by Danny Schechter.

Will it make me angry? I don't like films that make me angry.

I like films that make me happy. Such as Grave of the Fireflies.

Yeah it will piss you off. It will piss you off more if your were one of the ones that got fucked.

I avoided the housefuck. I worked construction for years and watched what was going on, thinking "wow this is totally going to end badly some day" and then it did and I went through like a 2 year period of laughing at everyone.

Then I realized we all got fucked by it. Even those that didn't still suffered a bit. My retirement/gear/booze/hookers slushfund was up to like $20k 5 years ago. It's a lot less these days.

Funny how I'm happily poor working in bass pickup land these days. Bad career move on paper = loving daily existence IRL

nad wrote:I avoided the housefuck. I worked construction for years and watched what was going on, thinking "wow this is totally going to end badly some day" and then it did and I went through like a 2 year period of laughing at everyone.

Then I realized we all got fucked by it. Even those that didn't still suffered a bit. My retirement/gear/booze/hookers slushfund was up to like $20k 5 years ago. It's a lot less these days.

Funny how I'm happily poor working in bass pickup land these days. Bad career move on paper = loving daily existence IRL

That's why most of us don't live on paper. Ziggy does, but he isn't very happy, now is he?