ilovefuzz.com

AngryGoldfish wrote: but the truth is, we all know deep down that they are no different than the millions of businesses we are FORCED to support every single day. We are in a world where if an insurance company fucks with us, we can't go somewhere else because they'll fuck with us too and we'll have to go through the process again. Not only that but refusing to buy Nike products in the future won't hurt Nike in the slightest, so why bother? Why degrade ourselves so that that their revenue is point point point point point point point point point point point point point point point point point one percent lower annually? It's not worth it. This thread hopefully will hurt PryMaxe enough for them to change their practises, but they'd still be scumbags looking, like everyone else, for another way to save money. You can't always change someone by ignoring them.

This makes me sad mostly because it's true. I hope I live to see humanity outgrow greed and money problems. It's very depressing

Nora Billy wrote:If this practice is bad for the builders why don't they just agree not to sell their wares at Prymaxe and instead sell it at another shop that doesnt do the constant discount? I am willing to bet that if a big group of builders went to PGS and said they would pull all their stuff from Prymaxe in exchange for their stuff not being on constant discount they would do it.

This is just a guesstimation and not meant to reflect the opinions of anyone but me, but I imagine companies like EQD were greatly supported by retailers like PryMaxe Vintage in their earlier stages. As harmful as they were to Tom and his business, there is a chance that PryMaxe was a valuable asset for an already well-established builder like EQD, Lovepedal, Empress, etc., because they offer cheap rates, ship worldwide and keep a regular rotation of stock (that is not to suggest Fuzzhugger was not established). Again, as harmful as the strategies that PryMaxe employs are to certain people, they are beneficial to others.

AngryGoldfish wrote:

Disarm D'arcy wrote:I guess I tend to see a difference due to the fact that you can buy a Fuzzhugger pedal without hurting Tom's business while it's impossible to buy a phone that's made in decent social and environmental condition.
My take on it is that I try to be the most responsible in my habits. I could take the bus everyday instead of driving a car, but using public transportations would take me a bit more than an hour while the car is only ten minutes. I won't beat myself if there's no decent alternative - I rather spend that time militating for things to change.

Exactly. That's the morality compass you've designed for yourself. No one else should be trying to change it. If you're hurting others or being complacent to a fault then maybe it's time to reconsider your actions and habits, but that's still something you'll have to do yourself. Government bans on speeding, taking drugs, etc. doesn't stop everyone doing it and certainly neither will I or anyone here.

Do you think that the drug use rates and frequency of people speeding would remain unchanged if the government restrictions were lifted?

D.o.S. wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote:

Disarm D'arcy wrote:I guess I tend to see a difference due to the fact that you can buy a Fuzzhugger pedal without hurting Tom's business while it's impossible to buy a phone that's made in decent social and environmental condition.
My take on it is that I try to be the most responsible in my habits. I could take the bus everyday instead of driving a car, but using public transportations would take me a bit more than an hour while the car is only ten minutes. I won't beat myself if there's no decent alternative - I rather spend that time militating for things to change.

Exactly. That's the morality compass you've designed for yourself. No one else should be trying to change it. If you're hurting others or being complacent to a fault then maybe it's time to reconsider your actions and habits, but that's still something you'll have to do yourself. Government bans on speeding, taking drugs, etc. doesn't stop everyone doing it and certainly neither will I or anyone here.

Do you think that the drug use rates and frequency of people speeding would remain unchanged if the government restrictions were lifted?

No, I didn't mean that. When I said "everyone", I meant all those that have already disregarded the morality—or whatever you want to call it—behind doing hard drugs and speeding will likewise try their best to disregard any government levies or laws passed to thwart them doing it. I don't actually mean everyone in the world, just the ones that don't give a shit about rules. The way I see it, it's how you view the world that truly matters, because you're the one living it. Perspective doesn't change the physicalness of a house or the bullet that ricochets off a rock and hits you in the nuts, but it does change how those two things impact you and your life. For instance, if you feel smoking weed is fine—which I have no problem with, by the way—and have little regard for the laws that illegalize it, many will continue to smoke weed when it befits them and when the bobbies aren't looking. This is the same principle when someone kills without consideration. They do not feel there is anything wrong with it so it doesn't matter what some cop or judge or president or prime-minister says, they'll still do it. In my opinion, we decide our own morality, not the government. We can use judicial laws to help guide ourselves if we want to. For instance, I want to use marijuana as a recipe for a dish, but I know it's illegal in Ireland and want to respect that by accepting and going along with it until it's legalized. In essence I'm considering both the government and myself. But I believe that people should be allowed to teach religion wherever they want or be gay openly, yet in Russia they can be incarcerated for it. In that instance, my morality goes above the government's and matters more to me.

Is this thread still about hating Prymaxe cause I do... Seems like they've added to the "clearance" section...

AngryGoldfish wrote:

Nora Billy wrote:This is just a guesstimation and not meant to reflect the opinions of anyone but me, but I imagine companies like EQD were greatly supported by retailers like PryMaxe Vintage in their earlier stages. As harmful as they were to Tom and his business, there is a chance that PryMaxe was a valuable asset for an already well-established builder like EQD, Lovepedal, Empress, etc., because they offer cheap rates, ship worldwide and keep a regular rotation of stock (that is not to suggest Fuzzhugger was not established). Again, as harmful as the strategies that PryMaxe employs are to certain people, they are beneficial to others.

I dunno man - I think a lot of builders are in the position where they can't say "fuck you" to the biggest site on the market. Prymaxe's sound shank video has 3500 views after 5 days. Demo God Kayzer has 1600 views after 7 months. The sort of exposure effects builders get through 10 hours minutes of Mike Hermans' playing cannot be bought on Youtube, or anywhere else for that matter. But it's simple economics - when the largest retailer consistently pushes down prices that much it's going to cut into the bottom line of everyone. For dudes like Boss that doesn't matter - it's a drop in the ocean - but for other dudes that's going to end up pushing up the prices they have to take from the dealers as the margins aren't there, and in the end the consumer has to pay for it. Fine, I think most "boutique" pedal companies deserve to go out of business, given the paucity of originality in their offerings, and the dearth of skill in what they're doing, but even the good dudes get jibbed.

Look at the BST lately. Pedals are moving so slowly. Why bother buying anything there when I can get 15% off at Prymaxe and shipping cheaper than any breaux can do? You're only going to pick shit up on the BST if you get a substantial saving on what you can already get a Prymaxe. Thus hurting this forum's compulsive flippers. I'm not looking at jwar. Not at all.

But all of that is pretty inconsequential. Economics is economics. The real problems is they jibbed Tom, Ryan and Brian. Our fuzzbuddies.

Nora Billy wrote:If this practice is bad for the builders why don't they just agree not to sell their wares at Prymaxe and instead sell it at another shop that doesnt do the constant discount?

some of us have already done that.

AngryGoldfish wrote:This is just a guesstimation and not meant to reflect the opinions of anyone but me, but I imagine companies like EQD were greatly supported by retailers like PryMaxe Vintage in their earlier stages. As harmful as they were to Tom and his business, there is a chance that PryMaxe was a valuable asset for an already well-established builder like EQD, Lovepedal, Empress, etc., because they offer cheap rates, ship worldwide and keep a regular rotation of stock (that is not to suggest Fuzzhugger was not established). Again, as harmful as the strategies that PryMaxe employs are to certain people, they are beneficial to others.

this is completely true.

goroth wrote:I dunno man - I think a lot of builders are in the position where they can't say "fuck you" to the biggest site on the market. Prymaxe's sound shank video has 3500 views after 5 days. Demo God Kayzer has 1600 views after 7 months. The sort of exposure effects builders get through 10 hours minutes of Mike Hermans' playing cannot be bought on Youtube, or anywhere else for that matter. But it's simple economics - when the largest retailer consistently pushes down prices that much it's going to cut into the bottom line of everyone.

also completely true and echoes angrygoldfish's thought. it hurt financially to walk away, i'll tell you that much... that being said though, when i felt their business practices were potentially hurting me in the long run i decided to walk away. only time will tell if i made a wise decision!

I wondered if there was any sort of correlation between the slowing of our BST and Prymaxe. I would have thought the protest would have helped out our BST a bit, but everything has been super super slow in it. Remember this time last Christmas or the Christmas before? Things were flying!

goroth wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote:

Nora Billy wrote:This is just a guesstimation and not meant to reflect the opinions of anyone but me, but I imagine companies like EQD were greatly supported by retailers like PryMaxe Vintage in their earlier stages. As harmful as they were to Tom and his business, there is a chance that PryMaxe was a valuable asset for an already well-established builder like EQD, Lovepedal, Empress, etc., because they offer cheap rates, ship worldwide and keep a regular rotation of stock (that is not to suggest Fuzzhugger was not established). Again, as harmful as the strategies that PryMaxe employs are to certain people, they are beneficial to others.

I dunno man - I think a lot of builders are in the position where they can't say "fuck you" to the biggest site on the market. Prymaxe's sound shank video has 3500 views after 5 days. Demo God Kayzer has 1600 views after 7 months. The sort of exposure effects builders get through 10 hours minutes of Mike Hermans' playing cannot be bought on Youtube, or anywhere else for that matter. But it's simple economics - when the largest retailer consistently pushes down prices that much it's going to cut into the bottom line of everyone. For dudes like Boss that doesn't matter - it's a drop in the ocean - but for other dudes that's going to end up pushing up the prices they have to take from the dealers as the margins aren't there, and in the end the consumer has to pay for it. Fine, I think most "boutique" pedal companies deserve to go out of business, given the paucity of originality in their offerings, and the dearth of skill in what they're doing, but even the good dudes get jibbed.

Look at the BST lately. Pedals are moving so slowly. Why bother buying anything there when I can get 15% off at Prymaxe and shipping cheaper than any breaux can do? You're only going to pick shit up on the BST if you get a substantial saving on what you can already get a Prymaxe. Thus hurting this forum's compulsive flippers. I'm not looking at jwar. Not at all.

But all of that is pretty inconsequential. Economics is economics. The real problems is they jibbed Tom, Ryan and Brian. Our fuzzbuddies.

I agree with you. Yet why has EQD just finalized a deal with them for one-off exclusives? Why have other companies done this in the past, too? Diamond, Emerson, Lovepedal, Keeley, Black Arts Toneworks, they all offered exclusive pedals with Prymaxe, some of which are now in regular rotation and have garnered the builders many new loyal followers. Were they simply duped into doing it like we were duped into buying them, or were they actually making decent money from it and appreciated the exposure? Again, I'm not condoning what Prymaxe is doing, I'm simply saying that it may not be as bad for one as it is for another. I still think it's horrible practise and potentially harmful for small builders, but if I'm really honest, it's the response to Tom's request that bothered me the most. I personally would not want that on my shoulders and I'm glad Brian and Tom are free of them.

And as regards your point about how a constant discount... discounts the need for a B/S/T forum, I also agree with you. But—again with the but—many of the more... 'greedy' builders would fight second-hand sales if they knew it would not alienate costumers who thought it was a scumbag move, which even TGP would do. Builders don't receive a mark-up from second-hand sales, right? Every time you buy a second-hand pedal that would have been bought brand-new, the builder and supplier are both losing money. How is that good? Exposure. I used to feel that way about Prymaxe. Being on their website two years ago or Pro Guitar Shop's was an effective way of getting your name out there. It may not have been the best, but every little helps. Now with the constant discounts, the shoddy shipping practises, and the way Tom was treated, I feel the polar opposite. Although it may be beneficial right now, is it worth it? I personally don't think so and will always try my utmost to support those that I love in the best way possible. I used to think it was Prymaxe when they only had a 15% sale every holiday, but not any more.

AngryGoldfish wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote:

Disarm D'arcy wrote:I guess I tend to see a difference due to the fact that you can buy a Fuzzhugger pedal without hurting Tom's business while it's impossible to buy a phone that's made in decent social and environmental condition.
My take on it is that I try to be the most responsible in my habits. I could take the bus everyday instead of driving a car, but using public transportations would take me a bit more than an hour while the car is only ten minutes. I won't beat myself if there's no decent alternative - I rather spend that time militating for things to change.

Exactly. That's the morality compass you've designed for yourself. No one else should be trying to change it. If you're hurting others or being complacent to a fault then maybe it's time to reconsider your actions and habits, but that's still something you'll have to do yourself. Government bans on speeding, taking drugs, etc. doesn't stop everyone doing it and certainly neither will I or anyone here.

Do you think that the drug use rates and frequency of people speeding would remain unchanged if the government restrictions were lifted?

No, I didn't mean that. When I said "everyone", I meant all those that have already disregarded the morality—or whatever you want to call it—behind doing hard drugs and speeding will likewise try their best to disregard any government levies or laws passed to thwart them doing it. I don't actually mean everyone in the world, just the ones that don't give a shit about rules. The way I see it, it's how you view the world that truly matters, because you're the one living it. Perspective doesn't change the physicalness of a house or the bullet that ricochets off a rock and hits you in the nuts, but it does change how those two things impact you and your life. For instance, if you feel smoking weed is fine—which I have no problem with, by the way—and have little regard for the laws that illegalize it, many will continue to smoke weed when it befits them and when the bobbies aren't looking. This is the same principle when someone kills without consideration. They do not feel there is anything wrong with it so it doesn't matter what some cop or judge or president or prime-minister says, they'll still do it. In my opinion, we decide our own morality, not the government. We can use judicial laws to help guide ourselves if we want to. For instance, I want to use marijuana as a recipe for a dish, but I know it's illegal in Ireland and want to respect that by accepting and going along with it until it's legalized. In essence I'm considering both the government and myself. But I believe that people should be allowed to teach religion wherever they want or be gay openly, yet in Russia they can be incarcerated for it. In that instance, my morality goes above the government's and matters more to me.

Do you think that the presence, or lackthereof, of laws and regulations (secular or sacred) have an effect on the development of personal morality?

skullservant wrote:I wondered if there was any sort of correlation between the slowing of our BST and Prymaxe. I would have thought the protest would have helped out our BST a bit, but everything has been super super slow in it. Remember this time last Christmas or the Christmas before? Things were flying!

Yeah, no-one's bought my overpriced Gonkulator yet.

Dicks.

AngryGoldfish wrote:I agree with you. Yet why has EQD just finalized a deal with them for one-off exclusives? Why have other companies done this in the past, too? Diamond, Emerson, Lovepedal, Keeley, Black Arts Toneworks, they all offered exclusive pedals with Prymaxe, some of which are now in regular rotation and have garnered the builders many new loyal followers. Were they simply duped into doing it like we were duped into buying them, or were they actually making decent money from it and appreciated the exposure?

i very much doubt they were duped into anything. some of those companies also are much larger than some of us other little guys, so they have a bit more leverage no matter how you cut it.

skullservant wrote:I wondered if there was any sort of correlation between the slowing of our BST and Prymaxe. I would have thought the protest would have helped out our BST a bit, but everything has been super super slow in it. Remember this time last Christmas or the Christmas before? Things were flying!

Honestly, I think it's just a slow economy. I personally can't afford anything right now (made this past weekend irritating with all the sales, but I survived ), and I know a couple local stores are slow right now, and have been in the tail end of the year. Maybe it's just upstate NY. We can't all be Uncle Grandfathers.

D.o.S. wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote:

Disarm D'arcy wrote:I guess I tend to see a difference due to the fact that you can buy a Fuzzhugger pedal without hurting Tom's business while it's impossible to buy a phone that's made in decent social and environmental condition.
My take on it is that I try to be the most responsible in my habits. I could take the bus everyday instead of driving a car, but using public transportations would take me a bit more than an hour while the car is only ten minutes. I won't beat myself if there's no decent alternative - I rather spend that time militating for things to change.

Exactly. That's the morality compass you've designed for yourself. No one else should be trying to change it. If you're hurting others or being complacent to a fault then maybe it's time to reconsider your actions and habits, but that's still something you'll have to do yourself. Government bans on speeding, taking drugs, etc. doesn't stop everyone doing it and certainly neither will I or anyone here.

Do you think that the drug use rates and frequency of people speeding would remain unchanged if the government restrictions were lifted?

No, I didn't mean that. When I said "everyone", I meant all those that have already disregarded the morality—or whatever you want to call it—behind doing hard drugs and speeding will likewise try their best to disregard any government levies or laws passed to thwart them doing it. I don't actually mean everyone in the world, just the ones that don't give a shit about rules. The way I see it, it's how you view the world that truly matters, because you're the one living it. Perspective doesn't change the physicalness of a house or the bullet that ricochets off a rock and hits you in the nuts, but it does change how those two things impact you and your life. For instance, if you feel smoking weed is fine—which I have no problem with, by the way—and have little regard for the laws that illegalize it, many will continue to smoke weed when it befits them and when the bobbies aren't looking. This is the same principle when someone kills without consideration. They do not feel there is anything wrong with it so it doesn't matter what some cop or judge or president or prime-minister says, they'll still do it. In my opinion, we decide our own morality, not the government. We can use judicial laws to help guide ourselves if we want to. For instance, I want to use marijuana as a recipe for a dish, but I know it's illegal in Ireland and want to respect that by accepting and going along with it until it's legalized. In essence I'm considering both the government and myself. But I believe that people should be allowed to teach religion wherever they want or be gay openly, yet in Russia they can be incarcerated for it. In that instance, my morality goes above the government's and matters more to me.

Do you think that the presence, or lackthereof, of laws and regulations (secular or sacred) have an effect on the development of personal morality?

For some, yes. For others, no. I have numerous friends who choose, because of a busy life and little time to sit down and think about this shit, to use judicial and secular laws and regulations to help expand their own inbuilt morality system—and I do believe we are, for the most part, born with a sense of morality. It's common knowledge that certain areas of the brain 'light up' when witnessing bad things happen to someone. And for others those areas don't light up. Also common knowledge: there are more psychotic people out there than is shown in the media. Maybe because they led happy lives and were never pushed to their breaking point; maybe because they were too busy to do anything insane, I don't know. It's all speculation at this point. No one truly knows anyone. We make assumptions and learn to trust. For some, trust is something we have to learn. We're not all born the same.

But to answer your question, I do think outside sources can affect our personal morality. Some are determined and wilful. I would say I'm like that. I have my own way of thinking and I can't change it easily. I'm stubborn in my owns views. I'm religious and believe in God, but I have a desire to see everyone happy—everyone. To some this seems contradictory. To me it's natural and perfectly logical. I believe part of my desire to see everyone smile is because that's what God wants. But then again, maybe God isn't real and it's because I spend so much time on the Internet and open-minded discussions boards like this that I am who I am. Or maybe because I was raised that way, or maybe because I had a twin that died at birth who was homosexual. It could be any number of things. Or maybe I was born this way and was, for want of a better word, 'destined' to be the man I am today.

insubordination wrote:

skullservant wrote:I wondered if there was any sort of correlation between the slowing of our BST and Prymaxe. I would have thought the protest would have helped out our BST a bit, but everything has been super super slow in it. Remember this time last Christmas or the Christmas before? Things were flying!

Honestly, I think it's just a slow economy. I personally can't afford anything right now (made this past weekend irritating with all the sales, but I survived ), and I know a couple local stores are slow right now, and have been in the tail end of the year. Maybe it's just upstate NY. We can't all be Uncle Grandfathers.

Speaking of a slow economy, Ireland released its survey results the other day. Our unemployment rate is down by quite a reassuring amount. it's the lowest it's been since, I think, 2008/9. When all we're hearing is negativity, it was nice to hear that on the radio.

AngryGoldfish wrote:And as regards your point about how a constant discount... discounts the need for a B/S/T forum, I also agree with you. But—again with the but—many of the more... 'greedy' builders would fight second-hand sales if they knew it would not alienate costumers who thought it was a scumbag move, which even TGP would do. Builders don't receive a mark-up from second-hand sales, right? Every time you buy a second-hand pedal that would have been bought brand-new, the builder and supplier are both losing money. How is that good? Exposure.

Fuck, my epic post just got deleted.

FUCK!!

It's probably that Corey dude hacking my ILF account.

Anyways, the Reader's Digest version is that I'm not claiming the second hand market hurts builders. I am however pointing out that the effects of Prymaxe pricing are even present in other markets, and it's not just builders taking a hit. I also had a couple of paragraphs that was basically a regurgitation of macroeconomics 101, which also can be boiled down to free market good, profits good, lower prices for consumers good, higher prices for builders good, equilibrium good, Prymaxe using strong arm tacticts to shit on builders MSRP = distorting the market = bad.

Probably a good thing all that crap got deleted.

Hate on brothers!