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echorec wrote:Is this grey box the Space Race Neo?

hmmmm sumpin' sumpin' c-e....

that much matches with the earlier pic you posted....

Space control?

At first I thought I saw an "n" which might be the end of "resonance" but I don't think so.

Running a google image search on the pink boxed version you posted inserts the word "cake" alongside the image.

Mmmmmm delicious NAMM mystery

echorec wrote:

01010111 wrote:Now that I can afford more to spend a little more on gear I feel weird about doing so? Like, because it’s more expensive, it feels a little less.... genuine? As though “real” musicians wouldn’t use it because they can’t afford it?

I mean, all the music from the past was made using the cheap garbage that was available at the time. So, using gear that’s expensive and has all the bells and whistles makes me feel like less of a musician and more like a bougie gear nerd.

Ummm....what? "All the music" of what civilization are you referring to? Your statement might be true of tribal music in pre-industrial cultures, but it's not true for much of recent Western tradition.

Before the rise of the guitar, keyed instruments and strings dominated Western music for hundreds of years. If music was written and passed down through generations, it was often not going to be written or performed on "cheap garbage."

Even over the last 100 years, popular music has been written with concert and marching band instruments, in addition to expensive synthesizers and premium electric guitars. Your statement seems to ignore thousands of examples that invalidate such a declaration.

Amplifiers are probably the best thing that illustrates my point. Back in the 60s people were converting old tv’s into amplifiers because they couldn’t afford “real” ones. And bands since then have used a lot of the more “bargain” amps. All of the doom stuff from the 90’s and now rely on the wide availability of cheap, loud amps (Peavey kvlt).

But this is something you see with lots of things. The jazzmaster wasn’t worth anything until people started making good music with these discarded, and insanely cheap, instruments. Lots of techno was made using stuff that had been dismissed at the time, or was relatively cheap. The DX7 and SH01 are kind of terrible, but because they were “cheap”, lots of stuff was made using them. The Jupiter 8 may have shaped the sound of the cinema, but most people were loving all the weird casio machines that came out back then. The only reason shoegaze is a thing is because pedals were seen as garbage and you could easily go pick up whatever you wanted for $5 a pop.

Optimizing with limited resources brings creativity. Buying the “best”, new thing is fun, but working within limits forces me to be creative and stop avoiding the fact that I’m really not that inspired in general. It forces me to come up with new ideas, and I like that. And that seems to be in line with how much of the music I love was made.

01010111 wrote:I mean, all the music from the past was made using the cheap garbage that was available at the time. So, using gear that’s expensive and has all the bells and whistles makes me feel like less of a musician and more like a bougie gear nerd.

01010111 wrote:Amplifiers are probably the best thing that illustrates my point. Back in the 60s people were converting old tv’s into amplifiers because they couldn’t afford “real” ones. And bands since then have used a lot of the more “bargain” amps. All of the doom stuff from the 90’s and now rely on the wide availability of cheap, loud amps (Peavey kvlt).

So are you trying to say that music didn't exist before 1960, because there were no amplifiers? Or are you trying to say that compositions prior to 1960 have no value, and therefore should be disregarded?

I was really hoping you were going to answer my rebuke by claiming to hail from some lost sewer tribe whose entire musical history has been made possible by recycling cat organs and toenail clippings. Because if you're not going to claim sewer heritage, then your previous claims seem frightfully exclusionary.

The war for the loudest instrument was fought in the 1800's.

Echorec is pretty right here I think. I do agree that limited resources force creativity, but that's a slightly different point.

Yeah, it’s a pretty exclusionary statement. But the underlying point’s still valid: paying more for more isn’t always the “best” thing. Not to say “good” music wasn’t written using expensive instruments. Just that most people and musicians can’t afford them and still write excellent music. So, spending more with the hope of being better isn’t the right thing to do if you can’t make good music with what you have.

tremolo3 wrote:I like how you think Batman <3

No disrespect to Batman, but he has more expensive gear than all of us put together.

Willy, just wait 12-18 months and it will be $100 less, used. You know this though.

01010111 wrote:Yeah, it’s a pretty exclusionary statement.

I'm going to take this as an admission that the trash people are the new bourgeoisie.

I think a lot of this other stuff needs to be preserved in a time capsule, because you're rewriting history faster than most persons will be able to follow.

01010111 wrote:Lots of techno was made using stuff that had been dismissed at the time, or was relatively cheap. The DX7 and SH01 are kind of terrible, but because they were “cheap”, lots of stuff was made using them. The Jupiter 8 may have shaped the sound of the cinema, but most people were loving all the weird casio machines that came out back then. The only reason shoegaze is a thing is because pedals were seen as garbage and you could easily go pick up whatever you wanted for $5 a pop.

Techno artists used second-hand gear from Japanese manufacturers, therefore Chopin was never born. Loveless is a barebones, non-hedonistic music album that only cost £250,000 to complete recording in 1991 (£522,500 or $723,985 in 2018). It became the music of the people, exclusively thanks to the fiscal restraint that was exercised across its 3-year undertaking.

FTR, W, I'm just giving you a hard time. I am kind of curious, though, if Frogtown is the capitol of the garbage people.

More modular software options coming...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQe7Z0XE9oQ[/youtube]

50-watt boutique amp in stompbox format, estimated at $799

The Amp is a full featured 50W Guitar amplifier in a pedal. A high voltage tube preamp with EQ meets a 50W power amplifier with reverb and tremolo. There are outputs for speaker, headphones and balanced XLR. You can use The Amp as a pedal, an amplifier, a recording preamp, a practice amp or use it to drive the front end of another amp - meanwhile, it fits comfortably on your pedalboard or in your gig bag.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lUHPI3SXfc[/youtube]

I think the detail that is overlooked is, while I agree lots of 'genres' were formed around acquisition of cheap gear, said gear was not released on the market as cheap. Maybe the exception being a TB 303 ($395 when it came out in 1981 [source wikipedia ] ) and to a degree the EMS Synthi (not cheap when it came out but, "affordable" for a prosumer). The life cycle of the ARP 2600 is a good example. The minimoog too. When Gary Numan made his albums with the minimoog, it was still a new thing and so freaking expensive they could only rent it for the day.

In the gear ecosystem, you sort of need innovation and a flow of newer things to eventually make other stuff cheap. I was just talking to Olin about how a lot of my favorite Jungle chunes were made on car boot (see what I did?) sale samplers and drum machines...but again, those pieces of gear were top of the line when they were released...only to trickle down a half decade later.

A current example is, around this time of year I was obsessed with getting an Infinite Jets, paid top dollar for the pre order...now I'm seeing people having a hard time selling theirs.

echorec wrote:I think a lot of this other stuff needs to be preserved in a time capsule, because you're rewriting history faster than most persons will be able to follow.

I’m not rewriting history. You’re raising a few exceptions to what I’ve said to try and prove a generic statement is false. Generally speaking musicians can’t afford to spend a lot of money, so, they use what’s available. And that’s the way it’s always been.

Anyway, have a fun Saturday coveting gear that would cost several months of a normal person’s salary, and thinking it’s what’s absolutely necessary to make good music

01010111 wrote:

echorec wrote:I think a lot of this other stuff needs to be preserved in a time capsule, because you're rewriting history faster than most persons will be able to follow.

I’m not rewriting history. You’re raising a few exceptions to what I’ve said to try and prove a generic statement is false. Generally speaking musicians can’t afford to spend a lot of money, so, they use what’s available. And that’s the way it’s always been.

Anyway, have a fun Saturday coveting gear that would cost several months of a normal person’s salary, and thinking it’s what’s absolutely necessary to make good music

echorec wrote:More modular software options coming...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQe7Z0XE9oQ[/youtube]

50-watt boutique amp in stompbox format, estimated at $799

The Amp is a full featured 50W Guitar amplifier in a pedal. A high voltage tube preamp with EQ meets a 50W power amplifier with reverb and tremolo. There are outputs for speaker, headphones and balanced XLR. You can use The Amp as a pedal, an amplifier, a recording preamp, a practice amp or use it to drive the front end of another amp - meanwhile, it fits comfortably on your pedalboard or in your gig bag.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lUHPI3SXfc[/youtube]

I think that Milkman pedalamp is a pretty neat idea, but I think I'd need a huge board for it to fit.

This makes me wonder though, are their any other pedal-sized amps with a full EQ? I tried a Quilter and wasn't into it.

Aghartha wrote:This makes me wonder though, are their any other pedal-sized amps with a full EQ? I tried a Quilter and wasn't into it.

Demeter Pedalboard Amp, Traynor Quarterhorse, that balls expensive Taurus thing, Amp1, a few others. None of them are the size of a standard 4-knob pedal, though.

The Eristic wrote:

Aghartha wrote:This makes me wonder though, are their any other pedal-sized amps with a full EQ? I tried a Quilter and wasn't into it.

Demeter Pedalboard Amp, Traynor Quarterhorse, that balls expensive Taurus thing, Amp1, a few others. None of them are the size of a standard 4-knob pedal, though.

Or just get a preamp pedal and a cab sim like the Digitech Cabdryvr or the Neunaber Iconoclast, it's what I do.