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Regardless of what big muff he used I think its the fact he's left handed but plays right handed that gets the killer tones...

Roseweave wrote:Apparently Billy used the Creamy Dreamer Russian Muff during the 1999 Arising! Tour. Anyone have any pictures of it on his board?

I think I posted these shots earlier (2 of them, anyway), but here they are again:


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/S ... lly334.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/S ... lly335.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/S ... lboard.jpg

Looking at the scratches in shot of Billy's Muff (I'm NEVER getting bored of saying that!), and the scratches muff in these pics (yeah, I'm getting THAT anal today), I'm assuming they're the same one. Not russian, anyway. I know Jeff Doucette supposedly sent one to Billy around 1999, I heard that he wasn't keen on it. Didn't stop the guy from using that to sell the bloody things, much like Electro-Harmonix exploited the Hendrix association to sell Big Muffs in the first place, actually.

PumpkinPieces wrote:Regardless of what big muff he used I think its the fact he's left handed but plays right handed that gets the killer tones...

I heard the birthmark was the source of all his power.

don't forget the gish/siamese dream thrift store psychedelic shirts.

Billy's Muff is a V4. The V3 knobs are off set and the V5 has "Tone Bypass" switch. I get my information from owning a V3 and V5, plus this site: http://www.kitrae.net/music/music_big_muff.html

Anyways, only found this site a few minutes ago! Seems like my type of place!

I was suspecting it was an Op-Amp one as well, but I'm not an expert, as I've only owned the Black Russian version(the version 8), 2 NYC reissues (one of which is probably somewhere in this house - once I find it I'm thinking about modding it) and the newer LBM (i.e.Version 10)

My NYC muff does a fairly decent Pumpkins-esque tone, and it does Silversun Pickups quite well too, so I'm happy with it.

That Muff site is really cool, by the way, this quote always fascinates me though:

Version 10 "LITTLE" BIG MUFF (circa 2006) - Sonically the Little Big Muff sounds very similar to the NYC reissue V9, but a bit brighter and a bit less bottom end to the sound. A great Muff tone. Some people say this sounds like the Ram's Head Muff, but not like any Ram's Head Muff I have ever played, and I have played a bunch.

I had never heard that about the Little Big Muff until i saw that site. My LBM is one of the initial ones with the knobs the in wrong order ("Sustain" and "Volume" are swapped over), and I've also had some people claim those were louder than the current LBMs. Mine does have a slightly different character to the NYC though.

This thread has both informed and amused me in equal measure. I've read in other place people claiming he used a Triangle muff, and the one Billy actually DID use isn't even seen as a "true" muff by most. Brilliant.

PumpkinPieces wrote:Regardless of what big muff he used I think its the fact he's left handed but plays right handed that gets the killer tones...

Just like Steve Morse, Gary Moore, Michael Angelo Batio (yuk!), Bruce Cockburn, Mark Knopfler, Janick Gers, Paul Simon, Danny Gatton, John Wetton...I read somewhere Robert Fripp is a lefty-plays-righty too.

Spiteface wrote:I had never heard that about the Little Big Muff until i saw that site. My LBM is one of the initial ones with the knobs the in wrong order ("Sustain" and "Volume" are swapped over), and I've also had some people claim those were louder than the current LBMs. Mine does have a slightly different character to the NYC though

There was a little big muff in the 70s -- it was a full size EH1322 board in a smaller box.




Doesn't sound anything like a ram's head BTW...

devnulljp wrote:

Spiteface wrote:I had never heard that about the Little Big Muff until i saw that site. My LBM is one of the initial ones with the knobs the in wrong order ("Sustain" and "Volume" are swapped over), and I've also had some people claim those were louder than the current LBMs. Mine does have a slightly different character to the NYC though

There was a little big muff in the 70s -- it was a full size EH1322 board in a smaller box.




Doesn't sound anything like a ram's head BTW...

Nice pics! I am a sucker for old EHX stuff. I seem to buy whatever I can get my hands on, considering the price is right.

firesgt911 wrote:Billy's Muff is a V4. The V3 knobs are off set and the V5 has "Tone Bypass" switch. I get my information from owning a V3 and V5, plus this site: http://www.kitrae.net/music/music_big_muff.html

Anyways, only found this site a few minutes ago! Seems like my type of place!

I still don't think you can say that for sure without looking inside the box.
I have (or had until my last gear purge) three triangles, two ram's heads, two v3, a v4 IC EH3003B, v5 EH3003 v5 EH1322, v6 EH3034 and a first issue Sovtek. There's still a lot of overlap in parts and components, and there were v3s with "AC" on the box. The knob placement is the most damning, but (a) it's possible he (or someone) redrilled the knobs so they aren't offset (I've seen that), used newer round shaft knobs (seen that), the pots might have been replaced (I've seen that), and it's possible Billy's just fucking with everybody (again, long history of that).
But yes my first thought on seeing that pic was that's a v4 IC muff, like the one I just sold.
But listening to it, I'd swear it was a 3034.

devnulljp wrote:

firesgt911 wrote:Billy's Muff is a V4. The V3 knobs are off set and the V5 has "Tone Bypass" switch. I get my information from owning a V3 and V5, plus this site: http://www.kitrae.net/music/music_big_muff.html

Anyways, only found this site a few minutes ago! Seems like my type of place!

I still don't think you can say that for sure without looking inside the box.
I have (or had until my last gear purge) three triangles, two ram's heads, two v3, a v4 IC EH3003B, v5 EH3003 v5 EH1322, v6 EH3034 and a first issue Sovtek. There's still a lot of overlap in parts and components, and there were v3s with "AC" on the box. The knob placement is the most damning, but (a) it's possible he (or someone) redrilled the knobs so they aren't offset (I've seen that), used newer round shaft knobs (seen that), the pots might have been replaced (I've seen that), and it's possible Billy's just fucking with everybody (again, long history of that).
But yes my first thought on seeing that pic was that's a v4 IC muff, like the one I just sold.
But listening to it, I'd swear it was a 3034.

Definitely can't say for certain. I can, however, get his sound with my IC Big Muff, with those settings. That is the biggest reason I believe it to be a V4. I think it is a reasonable educated guess.

firesgt911 wrote:Definitely can't say for certain. I can, however, get his sound with my IC Big Muff, with those settings. That is the biggest reason I believe it to be a V4. I think it is a reasonable educated guess.

Are you using his guitar, his amp, and then multilayering everything you play in the same studio?
You can get a fair approximation of that SP sound with a Tone Wicker too...

devnulljp wrote:

firesgt911 wrote:Definitely can't say for certain. I can, however, get his sound with my IC Big Muff, with those settings. That is the biggest reason I believe it to be a V4. I think it is a reasonable educated guess.

Are you using his guitar, his amp, and then multilayering everything you play in the same studio?
You can get a fair approximation of that SP sound with a Tone Wicker too...

Like the saying goes, "I can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking my head up a cows ass, but I'd rather take the butchers word on it!"

There are obviously an infinite amount of variables. All I'm am saying is that is most likely a V4. Based on the information provided, it is the MOST logical conclusion. The op-amp Big Muffs are capable of obtaining his tones. If you can't, then you are doing it wrong. If you are wanting to argue for the purpose of arguing, that's fine. I was simply making an educated guess. But then again, maybe he was playing on a Tuesday, and that was the most important variable!

How would you best emulate a multilayer effect anyway? A very slight detune or something and some delay and verb. Maybe the modulated delay on something a memory boy would be interesting. If you could get something that could do lots of early reflections, distributed them along the tonal spectrum and detuned them in and out slighly you could get a nice wall of sound effect. You wouldn't need 60+ tracks, I doubt Siamese Dream would have sounded all that different with 12. I think a lot of Fuzz pedals are trying to recreate the WHOOPMH of a multi tracked big muff. A lot of fuzzes really do create a "Wall of Sound" effect becaue of Siamese Dreams(not that just about any Big Muff can't to some extent).

Multi Tracking really does make sounds sound more powerful, but other types of amps/pedals don't need it as much. Generally stuff on the neck pickup sounds way better double tracked(listen to most of Tom Morello's tracks, if you isolate them they sound a bit fuzzy/fizzy but with 2-6 going at once and the bass tightly following they kind of blend together), on the bridge not necessarily.

These are three boards I've seen in IC muffs, with/without tone bypass and with/without the on/off switch.
All from mid70s-early 80s

EH3003B


EH3003


EH1322


Here's what they look like from the front



Some of those aren't IC muffs ;-)

iblamesummers wrote:I was even shocked to find that the main riff for heavy metal machine was not a fuzz pedal, but a small solid state marshall combo (like a mosvalve or something) coming out of the headphone jack straight into the recording console.

It was a crate GX15R, not a marshall, we can see two of them on his rack





Devi, maybe you could take the overdrive preamp section and put it in a pedal ?
the schematic is pretty simple:
http://music-electronics-forum.com/atta ... 4701c4.pdf

for THAT sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RXfy26saR8