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I would say that Lena Dunham is a noteworthy piece of shit, to anyone who pays attention to the things she does/says. She has kind of become a shorthand to conservatives for outrageous artsy millennial liberalism, but she has come out with some horrendous statement about sexual behavior and race A LOT over the years and always seems completely unrepentant about it when called out, constantly playing the victim. Only recently have people pointing out her bullshit been widely noticed/listened to.

D.o.S. wrote:

rustywire wrote: A specific example of "minimizing the experiences of women" is The 2017 Lena Dunham Experience. You know, how she went from "things women dont lie about: rape" to then "you should listen & believe every woman!" and now “our insider knowledge of Murray’s situation makes us confident that sadly this accusation is one of the 3% of assault cases that are misreported every year.”

For the record I would not necessarily pick Lena Dunham as my paragon of thoughtful nuance and I'm not sure you should here, either.

Even if you do Pick Dunham we are still talking a max of 3%?

Corey Y wrote:

rustywire wrote:

Corey Y wrote: It's not a battle of the genders, it's just our culture is setup to favor/support/defend men in the those situations and not believe or flat out criticize women who come forward.

Not trying to discount the rest of your post but this specific assertion needs immediate elaboration and citation.

Which part? Do you want me to cite how our culture operates? I dunno, I mean I guess I can look up thousands of news articles, books, movies, television episodes, court testimony? How much work do you want me to do to prove the way the world is? Have you not read the news or paid attention to sexual harassment or rape cases in the media for the past however many decades you've been alive? Not trying to be a dick, but this is kind of like when people on Facebook want you to prove that racism exists or something. I mean...I can...but there's so much to draw from it's kind of daunting and if you're being serious and genuine and you haven't noticed or ran into this kind of thing ever in your life, I'm not sure I'm up to the task. Google is a very effective tool, have at it. It's like if we're talking about the merits of the space program and you want me to prove the world is round and gravity exists, the information is concrete and available, but it's kind of a huge distraction from the actual conversation. Are we here to debate whether or not this is happening or are we discussing the particulars and associated issues? I'm up for the latter, less so the former.

If our culture is setup in such a way as you assert, it has been engineered whether the consequences be deliberate or not, and accordingly there will be specific statutes you can point to in support of defending men in those situations. Stringing together a series of logical fallacies and shifting the burden of proof does not change facts. First we must identify them.

I direct your attention to the family court system, where all it takes is the accusation of domestic violence or sexual abuse to immediately bar a father from seeing his kids, while the case proceeds as an inquisition, ultimately enforcing any alimony and/or child support settlement or else jail. I repeat, in 2017 all it takes is an accusation. Do marriages tend to end amicably, or does that sound like an opportunity to *close that chapter* *cut him out of my life* and most crucially *teach him a lesson, make him live to regret this* via the state? If the system were setup to support/defend a man in such a position, where is the evidence to support it? This isn't like "trying to prove racism" it would be in black & white on paper.

This isn't like facebook...you take that back!

At least it wasn't until the post I'm responding to here. Analogies are not substitutes for arguments, or necessarily support for facts. Gish galloping a bunch of tangentally-linked-at-best talking points and then making a point about distractions is unproductive, even counter productive. Similar principles may apply, but if the evidence is 'concrete and available' then you should easily be able to present it without flourish and room for reasonable doubt. Telling someone "google it" is intellectual laziness. I'm uninterested in moving goalposts, as well as debating whether or not abuse is happening. It is. I am discussing the particulars.

D.o.S. wrote:

rustywire wrote: A specific example of "minimizing the experiences of women" is The 2017 Lena Dunham Experience. You know, how she went from "things women dont lie about: rape" to then "you should listen & believe every woman!" and now “our insider knowledge of Murray’s situation makes us confident that sadly this accusation is one of the 3% of assault cases that are misreported every year.”

For the record I would not necessarily pick Lena Dunham as my paragon of thoughtful nuance and I'm not sure you should here, either.

Same; I wouldn't. There's no nuance about it, which is why she perfectly illustrates a concrete example of "minimizing the experiences of women" while simultaneously being someone who allows the who to change the rules for what they did. Complete heel-turn when it's *someone I like/agree with*

Yes, women commit sexual assault too. Yes, women commit domestic violence too. Yes, sometimes fathers are more capable parents than mothers and should get custody.

Can we talk about what we're actually talking about now? Is sexual assault ok because sometimes women do bad things and don't get as called out for it as men? Black people can also be racist, but we don't have a problem with massive racism holding back white people in America. Underage girls can want to have sex, but statutory rape is still more often than not child molestation. Police officers often do good and don't get thanked, but police officers still routinely abuse their power and murder people without any substantive consequence. People who drive electric cars sometimes litter. Oil companies give to charity and also blatantly pollute and circumvent regulations and pay it off with fines that don't equal a fraction of a thousandth of a percent of their profits. The Catholic church has helped a lot of widows and orphans and sheltered rapists and child molesters from prosecution.

Life is full of contradictions and complexities, it doesn't change the basis of morality. Men who sexually harass, abuse and assault are bad people and they deserve criticism and consequence. Socially and legally. If you want to talk about the subject matter, talk about it, you're distracting from it.

...

Possible to re-focus on how strange and creepy Matt Lauer is looking today?

hbombgraphics wrote:Possible to re-focus on how strange and creepy Matt Lauer is looking today?

This headline alone... literally an evil villain. No wonder his co-anchors leave so quickly.

https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/11/ ... is-office/

I never liked Matt Lauer.

Chankgeez wrote:I never liked Matt Lauer.

Yea, I always told my wife that something was off/creepy about the guy....gut feeling

I am so glad that wine exists after reading here and the news.

Lena Dunham is trash.

Laws and statutes are not necessarily the black and white facts, since actual humans and culture impact how they are enforced. Prosecutorial discretion is a thing. Sentencing is a problem (see Brock Turner). Men *do* in fact have more power in lots of situations in the world. I don't know what else to say man. I am not moving the goal posts. Your arguments were not solid, Rusty.

Also, it is NOT LAZINESS TO TELL SOMEONE ELSE TO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH. Sorry for yelling, but man. Telling someone else they are lazy so you can avoid a google search is bananas.

Re: rustywire's comment about family court:

I love when guys bring family court up. It shows their true colors. It's like when guys say "dang women have the real power, with their tits and asses all in our faces, they're the ones really in control!"

I have worked with men and women in the family court system. Here's a news flash: all court systems are fucked. Once you're on the wrong side of the stand, you're fucked. Doesn't matter what your gender is. I know women who have been abused to no end by that system, even with numerous medical reports of them and their young children being beaten and raped, the fathers still got partial custody because of the very same attitude that you have. The cops have that attitude too, the "lyin' bitch" attitude.

There are two reasons why courts tend to give custody to the moms over the dads:

1: the child came from her body and has a biological need to be with her except under the direst of circumstances. Even then, the child does not know the nuances of the situation and just wants to be near mom.
2: MEN BEAT, RAPE, AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY ABUSE WOMEN EVERY DAMN DAY AND IT IS AN EPIDEMIC OF CRUELTY. Spare me with the "women are awful too" shit because if you weren't a spineless cuck you would be able to defend yourself against the big bad broads.

lost in music wrote:

rustywire wrote:.I expect more stories involving swimming coaches, gymnastics, yoga & dance instructors,

Gymnastics blew open earlier this year.

http://nypost.com/2017/06/27/how-us-gym ... ual-abuse/

See ya, perv-o.

http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/12/0 ... ssion=true

60 years seems like too short, although he won't live another 60 years.

Not sure how many more of these stories I can handle where it appears Schools/Churches/Businesses ignored warning signs for years.

What's fucked up and sad is the 100 women or so he messed with probably wouldn't have gotten him that time alone. This however is what I'm sure pushed it over and I'm surprised to see he's not serving life.

"The child porn was discovered last year".

So, he was a monster on many levels.