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jwar wrote:Over 40% of the country didn't vote. LET THAT SINK IN.

It's not too far off from most POTUS elections in this century and the previous one. Abstention as been oscillating between 40 and 50% since Woodrow Wilson vs Teddy Roosevelt if memeory serves.

popvulture wrote:Straight ticket, or a little curved?

hahahahaha

Red-veined or blue?

I'm also more than a little disappointed that Bill "Spaceman" Lee only received 3% of the vote in his bid to be Governor of Vermont.

Chankgeez wrote:I'm also more than a little disappointed that Bill "Spaceman" Lee only received 3% of the vote in his bid to be Governor of Vermont.

D.o.S. wrote:Last bit of copying and pasting before I listen to some Bohren & der Club of Gore for the rest of the night. This is from June, but I agree pretty strongly with it and it's conclusions:

No one asked me, but here are my thoughts on the tragedy of the Brexit vote -

Both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very, wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for thirty years.

Questions such as - Who are the losers of globalization, and how can we spread the benefits to them and ease the transition? Is it fair that the rich can capture almost all the gains of open borders and trade, or should the process be more equitable? Can we really sustainably create a media structure that only hires kids from top universities (and, moreover, those prick graduates that can basically afford to work for free for the first 5-10 years) who are totally ignorant of regular people, if not outright disdainful of them? Do we actually have democracy, or do banks just decide? Immigration is good for the vast majority, but for the very small minority who see pressure on their wages, should we help them, or do they just get ignored?

Since the 1980s the elites in rich countries have overplayed their hand, taking all the gains for themselves and just covering their ears when anyone else talks, and now they are watching in horror as voters revolt. It seems in both cases (Trumpism and Brexit), many voters are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say FUCK YOU to people like me (and probably you).

The leaders of these movements (Trumpstick, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage) have acted cynically for their own benefit. They've been willing to stir division and nationalism. And some of their supporters are real racists. The only solution for that small minority is to be crushed and thrown into the dustbin of history. But I refuse to believe this is the case for the larger group of supporters, that is, half of the UK or almost half of the US. They have some legitimate concerns, and the only outlet to vent they were offered was a terrible one.

If we want to move forward productively from these historical shocks (and please, let's try to do that), rich world urban dickheads (like me) need to recognize that they are not the only people on the planet with views worth listening to.

https://www.facebook.com/vincent.bevins ... nref=story

I get this and I understand why all this has happened, but the thing that I can't grasp is that, even though we are all in utter disdain for the systems we have in place, and we are all absolutely entitled to our outrage and to protest vote against the system, why does that a)have to involve some kind of a backflip to post war "values" and economic policies that have been dead in the water since the Cold War? Why does it have to involve fear mongering and racist pandering, misogyny and rhetoric of just dire hate? And why can't people see that perhaps the outcome of their protest is just not going to be worth it?

Now, the misanthropist in me knows the answer, and humanist can attribute it to class and education demographics, but for the sake of yourselves, why abandon reason and cave to the hate?
You guys had Bernie, who was everything you needed. THE protest vote you had to have.

Ameribros, please don't consider that an attack, I'm feeling a huge amount of confusion at this massive leap to the "far right" that seems to be happening world over. Europe is doing it in spades and even here some idiots thought actually putting One Nation into senate was a cracker idea.
It just feels like the closer we all got to being a human race as whole, the more we realised we're talking shit and we need to act more that way.

Sad rant.
Sad, sad rant.

Yeah I have no fucking clue, dude.

Ok, everybody take a deeep breath and repeat after me:

"In the end, nothing actually matters. Nihilism is best -ism".

Fluffytime wrote:Ok, everybody take a deeep breath and repeat after me:

"In the end, nothing actually matters. Nihilism is best -ism".

Werd.

I don't know either, but it feels like some weird outgrowth of tribalism. Like we're all regressing to a really 'primitive' place...you can look at the form or the substance of these political movements, but either way it's super base. Like lizard-brained.

Short answer is that reason is hard, hate is effective. Look at the results we ('we') get from that approach, and how quickly. There are two kind of utopists, and the two types have nothing to do with their politics: revolutionary/radical utopists and incremental ones. There's an ebb and flow to which types are privileged, but there's also a 'risk management' element embedded in each. Civil Rights brewed for decades before reaching a tipping point that was sort of amorphous and inchoate; revolutions that result in genocide also have long backstories, but result in events that 'peak' with much more force. Helps me to think about it like weather patterns...a long, slow rain can yield as much precipitation as a hurricane but with waaaaay less damage. So we do have safeguards against crazy bullshit, and that's why incrementalists have a better rep.

But we're impatient, and, even though we know there'll be damage, we seem to be generally OK with occasional hurricanes because the structures set in place are perceived to be shit by a frustrated demographic. I don't have any ideas about the hate, though, beyond some kind of dark base assumptions about furriners. Seems dumb to make sweeping assumptions about the brokenness of democracy...it works pretty perfectly, as far as I can see. I think Trump is exactly what we deserve. Isn't he a perfect caricature of Americans?

(Only tangentially related, but I kinda think he'll be awesome. Not because there's any evidence to suggest that, but because we're clearly in fucking bizarro world. My compass is obviously broken, and nothing makes a fucking lick of sense. So by that logic, Trump could be Christ on Earth. Waiting with baited breath.)

jwar wrote:

Chankgeez wrote:I'm also more than a little disappointed that Bill "Spaceman" Lee only received 3% of the vote in his bid to be Governor of Vermont.

I gotta agree on this, but he got like 3% of the vote and spent some insanely small amount of money, his only donation he took was $20 haha and got 8800 votes.

As some consolation, I've heard a rumor that D.o.S. is in the running for the new cabinet position of "Secretary of Pussy Grabbing"

Invisible Man wrote:I don't know either, but it feels like some weird outgrowth of tribalism. Like we're all regressing to a really 'primitive' place...you can look at the form or the substance of these political movements, but either way it's super base. Like lizard-brained.

This x1000.
Even though the tribalism has only just come to a head for conservatives, that shit's been around for decades.

Invisible Man wrote:I don't have any ideas about the hate, though, beyond some kind of dark base assumptions about furriners. Seems dumb to make sweeping assumptions about the brokenness of democracy...it works pretty perfectly, as far as I can see. I think Trump is exactly what we deserve. Isn't he a perfect caricature of Americans?

Honestly, if you're really wondering where all the anger and "hate" comes from, just look at the reaction to the election.
Conservatives (especially older white conservatives) have spent the last 8 years being told they dislike Obama because they're racist, they've been told they're violent sociopaths, they've been told they're uneducated, and they've been told that they are what's wrong with America. The more and more they heard it, the more it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Someone who worked on a farm and was worried about Mexicans coming in and taking their jobs (or someone who worked in IT and became worried about companies hiring Indian immigrants) was told that they just didn't like Mexicans because they're fucking racists. So, the more that they heard that, the more jobs that started disappearing, the more companies started going under or moving overseas, the more that resentment built. Eventually, they came to blame those Mexicans/Indians/whatever for all the other problems that were going on, and then a guy like Trump showed up with his promises, bombastic personality, and on top of that, he wasn't part of the establishment that ignored their pleas to change things to help them.

Maybe they went to a rally, maybe they just silently were interested in Trump, but then they spent a year and half hearing people call them racist, sexist, deplorable, etc. because they supported a guy they thought might fix things for them.Maybe they snapped after seeing "protesters" attack Trump supporters at rallies while everyone told them they were the violent ones.
Maybe that's why so many finally said "fuck it" and voted for Trump.

Any talk about how they made the wrong choice is going to fall on deaf ears, though.
When people spend the whole time telling you that your candidate is going to fail because he's a racist fuck, and so are you, but they're enlightened and peaceful and tolerant then go right around screaming "fuck Trump" not 24 hours after the election is over, they're not going to listen to you.
All this has done is cemented the divide (racially, socially, economically, politically) in America.
I've gone into such a tangent that I'm just gonna stop here.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm still sick & tired of hearing about the Democrat & Republican parties.

Look on the bright side guys, at least the press isn't an arm of the government anymore, and will pick apart everything for the next 4 or 8 years. This may be the most transparent presidency ever. Also, I doubt the Reps or Dems will try to cram their corporate shill candidates down our throats next election. Maybe we'll actually get someone good next time.

morange wrote:Maybe we'll actually get someone good next time.

Pretty sure the American people have been saying that for the last 100+ years.