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Haha the choco milk <3

vidret wrote:

I am reluctant to chime in here. I loathe identity politics, but most of the poeple i meet who rail against this shit are doing so because they want to not feel attacked for their repulsive bigotry. Like, racism, homophobia, misogyny, these things exist, and affect literally everyone's thinking, including the people they hurt. Patriarchy is probably not a secret cult, just a name given to systems of power that are propped up in a million different tiny ways. Political correctness/identity politics/whatever started as a basic recognition that some people are more likely to have different or harmful experiences based on the narratives society project on them. Good idea. When it extends to authoritarianism and statism, very bad idea.

I don't really care what someone calls it as long as they are trying to be a decently respectful human being. You are still allowed to dislike orndisagree with people, but maybe don't couch that shit in their skin color or genital configuration? Or do, i'll just not like you. But i have met legit neo-nazis, shit ain't what's happening here.

Rule of thumb for patriarchy:

If you live in a society where the phrase "rule of thumb" is in use, it's a patriarchy.

Brandsmannen wrote:Saying "there is no patriarchy in the west" is kinda false though. Patriarchy doesn't refer to different laws for men and women, but structural things, like what is accepted and expected from different genders. I kinda find that acknowledging patriarchy isn't a radical opinion at all. Like for instance the difference of women vs men in power, why jobs that are women dominated are if you think of it extensions of jobs that were done in the homes before, like teaching, cleaning, nursing etc etc. And in terms of sex there is a massive difference of what is expected and accepted. You all know it, this is hardly radical or controversial opinions is it?

What you've described isn't patriarchy, but the product of life choices by individuals in a free society. There are still male dominated industries like refuse, mining, roughnecks, longshore fishing, sewer workers, high voltage power line maintenance...where women are scarcely found. Fields with high risk/high reward. Long hours, weeks...even months away from family & tangible risk of dying on the job. Nothing is preventing women from entering those fields other than their own decisions. There is no call for "equal (by counting genitalia) representation for half of the population" in any of those industries. Women have consciously chosen to abstain from such a career path.
The career paths where women dominate provide perks they find desirable, are much more comfortable & flexible, conducive to raising a family or having more free time which is again, by choice.

As for the attitudes toward sex issue...blame puritanism...which is at odds with the reality sex sells. "The world's oldest profession" is self-explanatory.
In a free society people naturally gravitate toward whatever they find desirable. In patriarchy, women do what they are told or face savage consequences.

Patriarchy is institutional; such as the system of Saudi Arabia, where women cant drive or vote, hold office. Where the eyewitness testimony of 4 women is equal to 1 man, where divorce is only granted if the man gives permission. Where women are literally treated as property and 2nd class citizens, by law. Which specific rights do men have (in the west) that women do not?

One could easily posit that women's low presence in such industries is a hold out of the vestiges of patriarchal thinking, if one were inclined. Maybe let's call it latent misogyny? It's not like women were given the right to vote and the very next day everyone started treating them with dignity and respect. The second and third waves of feminism came from something. Even i vehemently disagree with their conclusions, but some experiences catalyzed them.

gnomethrone wrote:Rule of thumb for patriarchy:

If you live in a society where the phrase "rule of thumb" is in use, it's a patriarchy.

Shoutout to Boondock Saints

rustywire wrote:Which specific rights do men have (in the west) that women do not?

I can jerk off and squirt millions of potential lives into a balled up tie dye t-shirt without worrying about congress passing legislation to declare me a murderer. I don't have to travel hundreds of miles for a basic medical procedure because my local electorate wants to appease some vengeful desert god.

gnomethrone wrote:

rustywire wrote:Which specific rights do men have (in the west) that women do not?

I can jerk off and squirt millions of potential lives into a balled up tie dye t-shirt without worrying about congress passing legislation to declare me a murderer. I don't have to travel hundreds of miles for a basic medical procedure because my local electorate wants to appease some vengeful desert god.

yupyupyup. Whoops. abortion legislation happened.

gnomethrone wrote:

rustywire wrote:Which specific rights do men have (in the west) that women do not?

I can jerk off and squirt millions of potential lives into a balled up tie dye t-shirt without worrying about congress passing legislation to declare me a murderer. I don't have to travel hundreds of miles for a basic medical procedure because my local electorate wants to appease some vengeful desert god.

That's a choice. Similarly, Roe v Wade has made choice the legal standard.
None of those *potential lives* you rub out are a zygote...nor do they involve another person's dna or agency. Apples & oranges.
Your beef (and mine) is authoritarianism. People who wish to mandate their opinion as law and limit choice.

Men who fail to register for selective service can be denied access to social programs & the right to vote.

1 - 1.

So, all things being equal...which specific rights do men have (in the west) that women do not?

Sure, I see what you're getting at. It's definitely not the same as living in the UAE. On the other hand, the odds of another draft aren't very likely and even then I hear Canada is nice.

gnomethrone wrote: I hear Canada is nice.

I thought this too.. until I found out that Canada is awash with emos and crackhead politicians..

I don't even know what's going on here now! LOL!!!

Ok so what I was trying to say. Man or woman, it doesn't matter. Body shaming is a good term for it. We are a cultural of asshats because the media portrays beauty as something that is only on the surface. Well recently there has been more inner beauty stuff, but I think it's more trying to manipulate people and keep from being hated.

So when I'm at a show (bodybuilding), I'll hear people in the audience say "why is that person on the stage, they look disgusting" or something more horrible. I turn around and look and usually the person is not even close to fit themselves. So it makes me think "what the fuck is wrong with us"? What is wrong with the human race?

There are many examples outside of bodybuilding obviously, but I'm using it as an example because it's something I'm very familiar with now.

You shoes suck. You hair style is ugly. Your face is fat...etc. What is wrong with us? Can we not live without shaming others?

I know I've been guilty of it, and it makes me sad. It's like a sickness. When I do think something negative about someone else, I take my own inventory (sorry AA talk here) and try to look at myself. Who am I to judge another man or woman?

Mudfuzz wrote:

gnomethrone wrote: I hear Canada is nice.

I thought this too.. until I found out that Canada is awash with emos and crackhead politicians..

I'm sorry…

Musical taste challenged and Albertaians

jwar wrote:I don't even know what's going on here now! LOL!!!

What is going on is the product of others looking in and scooping out the sparkly bits from the dark corners of your mind.