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D.o.S. wrote:Sure, but to the converse of that:I see absolutely no need to apologize for being a metalhead because Phil from Pantera got drunk and said a bunch of stupid shit. In fact, I categorically reject the idea, and I'm almost sure everyone does.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzoebhQ7hjQ[/youtube]

Agreed.

I haven't watched this yet and I really don't want to.
I'm already cringing.

He's done this sort of shit in the past, but has been able to sort half assedly palm it off by being a miscommunication.
I love the guy as a musician and totally dig his body of work but I find it hard to wrap my head around the fact that after all he's been through he can't get over that shit.
I guess racism is one of the hardest things we have to deprogram out of society at large.

As for racism in metal: I've met people who could give a rats about that shit, I've met nazi black metal dipshits, I've met stoner rock enthusiasts from the coast who wanted to start a fight with my mate and I because he's from Chile.
It's a fringe scene, it attracts fringe thinking. Even to the extent of polarising between the two extremes.

Good to hear Rob Flynn gave him a serve, though.
Don't even know how many times I've seen Machine Head.

He's been notorious for this shit since the early 90s, and one of the reasons I've always hated pantera. Where I live had a huge nazi problem in the 90s and the first couple of times you have to run for your life from them gives you a pretty staunch no tolerance perspective on the 'its about shock and anger and hatred' crowd.

But all that said, and better late than never, it seems a bit cynical everyone jumping in for their two cents at this point. Are people finally speaking out are they just taking the safe shot at the guy who's career is long gone? Where were some of these other guys when he was wearing triskelion shirts at the peak of their career? Where's the boycott of other bands who can still help out your career who are just as shitty?

I mean I dont want to write off a genuinely positive discussion but eh, the while thing just has this futile aspect of press releases to it.

This is coming from a guy who happily played a show with eyehategod though, so its not like I can talk either.

Valid.

How bad are EHG, really?

(Totally understand if you don't want to discuss that openly)

I only ask because I heard some....things.

I still loved their show.

daseb wrote:He's been notorious for this shit since the early 90s, and one of the reasons I've always hated pantera. Where I live had a huge nazi problem in the 90s and the first couple of times you have to run for your life from them gives you a pretty staunch no tolerance perspective on the 'its about shock and anger and hatred' crowd.

But all that said, and better late than never, it seems a bit cynical everyone jumping in for their two cents at this point. Are people finally speaking out are they just taking the safe shot at the guy who's career is long gone? Where were some of these other guys when he was wearing triskelion shirts at the peak of their career? Where's the boycott of other bands who can still help out your career who are just as shitty?

I mean I dont want to write off a genuinely positive discussion but eh, the while thing just has this futile aspect of press releases to it.

This is coming from a guy who happily played a show with eyehategod though, so its not like I can talk either.

Wait so this seems cynical but the GLOSS thing didn't?

I think theres a bit of playing up to their reputation. And they were incredibly nice and supportive to us. But like, thats the thing with music like that. Theres a fair chance the people that make it are going to cross your personal boundaries for whats not cool at some point. I love lots of bands that are probably made better by their members being fucking arseholes (Swans, Today is the Day).

Feel like this is always the kind of thing everyone needs to draw their own lines on and go 'well thats fucked but I'll still listen to the music'. For me it stops with nazi shit.


Can't quote on my phone but DOS, yeah because the people speaking out here are RICH WHITE MALE ROCK STARS OBVIOUSLY

nad wrote:

goroth wrote:I mean, no one gives a shit if Arghoslent release yet another album of anti-Semitic crap because even in the grand scheme of obscure extreme metal bands... they're pretty obscure.

I refused to listen to them when they first became a thing, but a friend of mine mailed me one of their albums because he wanted it out of his collection. My wife does NOT approve of it being on our shelves. Wait, I mean, I totally got rid of that years ago!

I really wish Arghoslent weren't so stupidly, incredibly racist. Honestly, I would be fine with just instrumentals of all their albums, that guitar player writes some mean riffs.

snipelfritz wrote:

Swordfishtrombone wrote:, but I thought it was pretty well known that he's a racist piece of shit?

My reaction.

Same here and from just about all my close friends. It's honestly not even news or shouldn't be. That's all Ive said about it and all I will.

People react that's fine, but this isn't something brand new by any means. he's always been a shitbag in general.

daseb wrote:But all that said, and better late than never, it seems a bit cynical everyone jumping in for their two cents at this point. Are people finally speaking out are they just taking the safe shot at the guy who's career is long gone? Where were some of these other guys when he was wearing triskelion shirts at the peak of their career? Where's the boycott of other bands who can still help out your career who are just as shitty?

agreed...somewhat...id say the large global discussion didnt happen back in pantera's hey days because internet forums, youtube, facebook etc wasnt available. At the time I got all my news from magazines and some from word of mouth (which was fuck all given im in australia)...and magazines would never publish racist comments or pictures. But i do remember hearing about it, and amongst friends we would talk about how shit it was...but thats as far as the conversation would go...there was only one person in our group who like pantera, so it didnt get as much attention amongst us.

the thing that shits me overall about this whole incident is the bullshit comments about this being normal in the metal community and that metal fans don't see anything wrong with it. Which is a perspective you could get by seeing all the pantera/phil fans coming to his aid on public forums/youtube etc...i just find that as a hard pill to swallow given all the people i know personally (or via these great forums) who are some of the genuinely nicest and most open minded people I know.

ShaolinLambKiller wrote:he's always been a shitbag in general.

Shitbag Sheryl

the raytownian wrote:Yes. It's called not getting bent out of shape over literally everything.

Eh, I don't see much of a problem with people being "bent out of shape" over something like racism, where you're pretty much objectively a piece of shit for not only believing, but spreading in this case, the bullshit. Racism and its negative effects do still exist, so it's stupid to act like it's some small thing that isn't relevant/deserving to be met with a negative reaction.

Basically what Mrs. Aen said.

goroth wrote:To clarify: I think Phil is a dick. And his pathetic attempts to prove he isn't a racist but just misunderstood are just crazy.

What I find odd is the question "s it a case of a minority of assholes thinking this is acceptable, or something common within the metal scene?". I mean, metal has racists, apologists and stupid fucking fans like any other genre. It also has people who don't fall into that category. Talking about the attitude of a metal fan isn't possible, just as it isn't possible to generalise about the attitudes of fans of any particular scene. Even overtly ideological scenes have their differences, but to even assume that a genre as broad as metal could be categorised in this way is fairly naive. Sorry to single you out Swordfish.

Yeah, I wasn't really trying to get at some "is metal full of racists?" thing, just wondering about whether the guy calling him out talking about all of these metal fans defending Phil is exaggerating with how he put it or if it actually seems somewhat common. I guess I could have gone with a more specific way of asking, but I dunno how I would have phrased that other than "is dude exaggerating at end of video about Phil apologists or no?". Meh.

"heros" will always fail you. and yeah he is a jackass a known one, but at least he isn't Morrissey

as for metalz, metalz is sadly[?] too big to just be a groovy counter culture and you have a huge range of people that like it enough to be considered metal heads, and because it caters to you inner angry 14 year old self a lot of the time you have a lot of immaturity in the mix, and so what, that's everywhere, that's people, people are immature emotionally on a global scale, hence why the globe is so fucked up. I think part of the problem with this topic is because it is a outsider culture that helps people that don't fit in feel like they belong to something, the problem is, is when people bring their "cultural" baggage along with them which robs the fun out of the whole counter culture thing which is you to rebel against the shitty parts of normal, mainstream, accepted society to show people you don't need to fall into the negative trappings of our human cultures

http://tech.blorge.com/2010/10/12/trive ... ory/122756

Here's a chucklicious story from a few years back.

All the points he lost for being a racist or whatever he wins back for hating The Sword.

#TeamPhill

#TeamRachel