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D.o.S. wrote:

Boxbie wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:This is a weird couple of threads for new posters.
Do a search.

What is this, TPG??

Just being suspicious. I could totally be off the mark.

Ah! gotcha.

goroth wrote:There's approx 4dB difference between a 20 and a 50 watter. Depending on speaker efficiency you could get a 20 watter louder than a 50. Also, wattage is only measured until the amp breaks up. If you're running it distorted that is also going to affect both the real and the perceived volume.

"louder" maybe, but 20 watts doesn't ballflap with a fullstack.

whiskey_face wrote:

goroth wrote:There's approx 4dB difference between a 20 and a 50 watter. Depending on speaker efficiency you could get a 20 watter louder than a 50. Also, wattage is only measured until the amp breaks up. If you're running it distorted that is also going to affect both the real and the perceived volume.

"louder" maybe, but 20 watts doesn't ballflap with a fullstack.

Don't get me wrong, I'm from the Yngwie school of guitar equipment.
For reference:


I'm just saying that folks who claim a 20 watter can get plenty loud don't necessarily have to be talking crap. Speaker efficiency is really important when it comes to overall volume, as is how an amp distorts. As wattage is only measured clean this is why a lot of people think tubes are louder than solid state - tubes continue to sound good when you push them into their non-linear range whereas solid state sounds poo. So depending on what is happening in that non-linear range you could be getting a fair bit of additional volume, or not much. As a signal distorts it also compresses, which increases the average volume of the signal. The human ear interprets increased average volume as increased overall volume (thanks to this bullshit we got the loudness wars with recordings). Finally, the human ear is not sensitive to all frequencies equally. If one amp has a mid hump around 1200 hz and the other has a scoop, the amp with the mid hump will appear louder, even though the volumes may be the same in terms of dB.

So yep, a 20 watter running relatively dirty, slight mid hump, into a 2x12 with EVM12Ls, compared to a 50w Fender running relatively clean into a 4x12 with some inefficient Jensens - the 20 watter will definitely be shit loads louder.

A stack won't give greater maximum volume. It will however increase the spread of sound so that the maximum volume is heard from a greater number of points. Which means that a 4x12 feels louder (but if the speakers are really directional then maybe not). The EVM12s have pretty good spread, so I'd still back the configuration above to be louder than the 50-watter with a 4x12.

But all things being equal - same speakers, same frequency response from the amp, but one running at 20 watts and one running at 50, yes, the 50 will be significantly louder. Run them both into a 4x12 and that will be even more apparent. It's just that all things never are equal, and it's not unlikely to find a situation where a 20 watter could be louder than a 50.

Sorry for the derail.
Um. Hovercraft?

I think we are all on the same page with you man.
It's just that I run 3 heads all 100+ watts. The loudest amp I have is a Sunn 1200s (old tube one not new bass rig ss one) and thats going to a folded horn 4x12 for depth, the other heads run 2x 4x12's and 2x 2x12's.
a 20 watt head is not going to match up in that sort of scenario. I use a mix of g12k100's, emmy delta 12a's and Altec lansing 417 8-H's, not shite speakers anywhere. I could optimize the cabs to be run through a head like that with the best speakers I have as far as efficiency is concerned, but it's still not going to match up.

Now a well made ( Hovercraft or not) 20 watt head going into good speakers is going to blow a line six pos half stack out of the water. every time. I completely believe that. Volume, tone etc. should win in every category.

and jesus I sound like fucking talkbass. Disregard. get cool shit and rock the fuck out. fuck science ( but not the good DR.)

AxAxSxS wrote:and jesus I sound like fucking talkbass. Disregard. get cool shit and rock the fuck out. fuck science ( but not the good DR.)

no sounding like talk bass is

"whats the best, lightest amp to go with my neo 110 cab?"

or

fearfullfearfullfearfullfearfull

I am so Fearfull


Fuck that. big heavy fucking cabs with big heavy fucking speakers and you cant go wrong. even if your back does.

Beer.

AxAxSxS wrote: big heavy fucking cabs with big heavy fucking speakers and you cant go wrong.

Beer.

Yup.

The 20 watters can be loud in the "can't comfortably stand in the bedroom w/o earplugs" kind of way, but I wouldn't roll into band rehearsal with one.

Last year I contacted Hovercraft about "Dwarvenaut-ing" my Jet City head, figuring I could do the sloppy re-tolexing and sharpie routine myself and save some $$$. It's not that weird that he wasn't interested in modding it, but I thought it was odd that he suggested he didn't want to do it because of the potential for the amp to get damaged in transit.
Ummmmm....aren't most/all of his amps shipped to customers after "recycling"?

benjuro wrote:

AxAxSxS wrote: big heavy fucking cabs with big heavy fucking speakers and you cant go wrong.

Beer.

Yup.

The 20 watters can be loud in the "can't comfortably stand in the bedroom w/o earplugs" kind of way, but I wouldn't roll into band rehearsal with one.

Last year I contacted Hovercraft about "Dwarvenaut-ing" my Jet City head, figuring I could do the sloppy re-tolexing and sharpie routine myself and save some $$$. It's not that weird that he wasn't interested in modding it, but I thought it was odd that he suggested he didn't want to do it because of the potential for the amp to get damaged in transit.
Ummmmm....aren't most/all of his amps shipped to customers after "recycling"?

Yeah...it's shit like this that makes me hesitant to purchase lol. Honestly, it seems like overall just a sketchy operation with no transparency.
Like others mentioned he throws out a bunch of buzzwords...matamp this and model t that, with no accountability as to what actually is being done.
They may sound good, but that whole way of doing business really turns me off.
Also, the guy can't play for shit. This makes me even more wary. Don't mean to rag on the guy, but anyone who has heard a demo can confirm.

^^^lol burn. Damn.

his playing aside, I think his demos are good. Not fantastic, but good. And theres quite a few for the dwarvenaut on you tube and even more on the sounds webpage and i think even more on soundcloud. They gave a good example of what the amps are capible of. Its appreciated. Ive bought expensive shit that doesnt have a single demo so....yeah.

I just payed for a Dwarvenaut through Hovercraft. There arent any demos for the voicing and features on mine but Im sure itll be nasty, esspecially through my new 4x12 coming.

Yeah...I guess he figures there's no need to go into detail about features cause people are buying them anyway.

Basically I bought one and had it shipped to Australia. Arrived in 9 days and was excellent out of the box.
Here is the thing, after playing for a while I realised that I should open it up to check what's under the hood.
Not a whole lot is different!
1 or 2 cap changes and lifts, depth mod (very common jet city mod), "vintage / modern voicing" control (seems like a presence control), FAC would be more useful with a rotary switch of 6 caps and the voicing option is really just a filter.
The voicing option is, from what I gather after playing for about 3 weeks, a switchable filter with each position modelled on a how a sunn, orange or hiwatt react etc etc etc

HOWEVER!

I played this head live without being mic'd, with a full band…. it was very very loud. Loved it. Kept up with doom very well.
It does cleans incredibly well (with a strat it is epic).
Overall, if I was just listening to this amp without any other knowledge or bias - I'm impressed.

belor, have you checked into the doom room yet?

Also, how was your buying/ordering experience?
I live in Brissie and a mate of mine was gonna get a Dwarvenaut on a run they did a few months back. So he emailed Hovercraft and they teed it all up. The next week or so, they announce they sold that run out, so mate asks, "did you hold me one then?" and all he got was, "nope". That was it. No apology, nothing about the next run. Nothing.
I was keen on a Falcon a while back but....fuck that. That shit shakes confidence.