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greyscales wrote:

Gearmond wrote:chirstmas music and Xmas music are totally different.

most holiday songs are xmas music, if you get my drift

I would agree with this for the most part.
Most Christmas songs are about things like Santa Claus, snow, and loved ones. Hardly religious for the most part.

Sure, there are songs about Jesus. But those aren't that popular in comparison.
Pick up the average contemporary Christmas album and there are only like 2 songs that are distinctly religious. That makes an argument against it pretty tough. Especially considering the pledge of allegiance and our money has phrases relating to God on them.

There's more than 2, hmm...

Silent night, little drummer boy, joy to the world, hark the herald angels sing, the first noel

That's all I got. Yeah, I get you though, most of them are shit like white christmas and here comes santa claus.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR07r0ZMFb8[/youtube]

Pretty sure it's not illegal, although I could be wrong.

Christmas is a holiday celebrated by many, not just one religious group.

I do hate the music though, so I'd still protest.

MEC wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR07r0ZMFb8[/youtube]

Dammit. I take it back. there is one good Christmas song. Totally forgot this.

My sister and I used to jam out to this back in the day.

i think i still have that CD somewhere... it had this on it too...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ycWObpi73Y[/youtube]

and this...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPj1GoDpQw[/youtube]

certainly not legal.



but I hear it at least twice around the holidays.

can't believe i remember that... "a very special christmas volume 2," 19freaking92. 20 years ago! seriously...
it's still in the itunes store too.

boys II men - the birth of christ. yikes.

i was a bit off though - there's actually another RUN DMC track.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX77dg5lk6c[/youtube]

Saying that it's OK to make kids of various religions listen to Christmas music because atheists also celebrate Christmas is like saying it's OK to call gay people fags because you have a gay friend.

I'm no attorney, but I don't think the playing of seasonal music would be illegal in a public school. Christmas is about as religious as a Thirsty Thursday happy hour special. Nobody gives a crap about Jesus in December anymore. Not even the die-hard Bible thumpers.

Think about it: a morbidly obese old socialist distributes gifts to kids (even undeserving minorities) for free. That's got fuck-all to do with any religion. It's far closer to some throwback pagan ritual than anything else.

It's inconsiderate and douchey for the school to subject you to that crap for a long period of time (or at all). But I think you would be better served focusing your energy on something else. You know, like making t-shirts that say "Santa is a Commie!" and wearing that to school.

In my high school choir a group of us once talked to the vice-principal about the fact that we did not like that we had to sing so much religious music. The principal was a good guy... the father of a friend of mine. He explained to us, and showed us where it states this in the guidelines the school district is governed by, that the use of religious music is exempted from any separation of church and state issues because it is considered a part of the arts. Art classes, choirs, bands, etc can all use religious themes in their work because it is all a part of the arts and religious music is just as much a part of the history of music as anything else.

That is a horrible explanation of what was told to us but it's been like 14 years so I seem to have lost some of the details of the conversation.

bongoben wrote:In my high school choir a group of us once talked to the vice-principal about the fact that we did not like that we had to sing so much religious music. The principal was a good guy... the father of a friend of mine. He explained to us, and showed us where it states this in the guidelines the school district is governed by, that the use of religious music is exempted from any separation of church and state issues because it is considered a part of the arts. Art classes, choirs, bands, etc can all use religious themes in their work because it is all a part of the arts and religious music is just as much a part of the history of music as anything else.

That is a horrible explanation of what was told to us but it's been like 14 years so I seem to have lost some of the details of the conversation.

I actually thought that was a pretty good explanation. Kinda like how the Bible is the greatest work of literature ever written.

excane wrote:

Trains the Jews in the fine arts of gambling from an early age. It's just a small step from those chocolate gold coins to Poker chips.

As a teacher of a fifth grade classroom in an inner city I think I can add a little bit to the conversation. Please keep in mind that I am not religious, I take the Bill Hicks stance minus the super strict religious upbringing, and that I took educational law in grad school.

Every state is different and so can every school district be as well. Some schools are issued mandates by district administrators to be completely non secular, like France. Others don't care. It's really as simple as that. It's not illegal to play Christmas music at a school, just like it isn't illegal to show a movie like Charlie Brown's Great Pumpkin.

It would be illegal if they were playing Bible verses over the loudspeakers, but that's not what they're doing.

The school I teach at has a lot of Muslim students and I still do a lot of Christmas stuff with my kids. I just flip it around for them. Did the same for thanksgiving and Holloween. Not trying to brainwash kids into being Christians by having them build paper Christmas trees.

Now I can't speak for OP's administration. There are obviously people out there who are willing to bend the laws to push their religion onto people. There are fights out there worth picking. If you see a pattern of a religion being pushed on you than there might be a fight there worth it. Sometimes it's an out of touch administrator just trying to cheer people up with what cheers them up; there's no vicious intent. Sometimes it's just sheer stupidity.

Obviously this is a very polarizing topic that comes up every year. Don't think too many people's stance on this topic will be changed here, but it's still fun to have an open friendly conversation about it.