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It's probably better you didn't read those comments. Some dumb stuff in there.

But I don't disagree with the not playing your hometown that much. Take THAT grammar police. I'd say more like 6 times a year. But we have like one great venue, two decent, and then maybe a dozen or so pretty small ones. Not talking about a huge mecca of music. I'm such a nerd I almost put mecha....anyways...if I were in bigger city I'd say it doesn't matter at all. So I guess it's all about where you are.

As a rule of thumb, bands shouldn't really play in their hometown more than once a month. It dilutes the draw. If you're playing a gig every week, someone's gonna think that if they miss your show they'll just catch you next week or something. Your band has to be pretty popular to get away with playing very frequently. City size doesn't really matter. Of course, you can just be in lots of bands. Solves some problems, creates others.

Chankgeez wrote:As a rule of thumb, bands shouldn't really play in their hometown more than once a month. It dilutes the draw. If you're playing a gig every week, someone's gonna think that if they miss your show they'll just catch you next week or something. Your band has to be pretty popular to get away with playing very frequently. City size doesn't really matter. Of course, you can just be in lots of bands. Solves some problems, creates others.

I agree. I think there's a period of time that you can spend playing in your home town / city before people start getting bored. There's plenty of bands in my city that are regarded as "institutions" of the local scene but never pushed themselves to move beyond the city. I think it helps to build up a following before you leave your comfort zone though.

the monthly thing makes more sense, though again it's missing the point that a lot of bands who became popular did so in part by relentlessly caning themselves around their local market area...in addition to the folks cited above, Black Flag, the Grateful Dead, and the whole Seattle-area "grunge" boom exemplify this. perhaps the question is just how much of a draw you are, how much somebody wants to see you. and anyway, if somebody lives in Norman, OK or something, how many opportunities are they going to have to PLAY out of town without driving two or three hundred miles?

I pretty much agree on the once a month deal in your home town. Exceptions being huge events that expose the band to more people. I would play something like that as well as "normal" show within a month.

The exception being if you are in Norman,OK or someother small place then you are one of the only acts around. Also where you play is limited. This also leads to playing a lot of parties too, I bet.

As someone who plays primarily "DIY" (for lack of a better term) shows in a band that plays no cover material and a 20 minute set, I feel almost as if I can't even relate to this. I've never played a show with the intention of getting paid. Whenever I do, it's a pleasant surprise. I play because I want to play. I'm not desperate. Shit, I don't book shows, or ever ask. People come to me with shows, I say yes, and that's how we get our schedule set. But, like, I feel as if I'm portrayed as the illegal Mexican immigrant of live music. I'll do what you will do, for less or nothing, thus ruining YOUR money.

Thing is, I don't do what you do. The people that would book your band would not like my band one bit. And I never want them to. I play to express myself, and the moment I focus on money, I'm gonna use that money to buy a shotgun and a shell, and I'm gonna fucking off myself.

I don't know why I said any of this, except for that this was just a thread of people complaining about not getting paid.

I remember those days...

i think the case in point example for this , from my perspective, is Peabody's in cleveland.

shitty as fuck metal club, but its the ONLY semi-mid-sized venue with a big enough stage for all those metal dudes with metric fucktons of gear, local acts are always on, and VERY low level touring acts (aka living hand to mouth and basically only touring to build a fanbase) who get jack shit and are basically trapped playing there because theres no other like "metal" place besides The Grog Shop which is fairly small.

and on top of that, $10 parking, two dollar WATER BOTTLES, and the sound is generally shit.

in short, fuck venues that sell themselve as a VENUE rather than the-place-im-going-to-to-see-a-band

theavondon wrote:As someone who plays primarily "DIY" (for lack of a better term) shows in a band that plays no cover material and a 20 minute set, I feel almost as if I can't even relate to this. I've never played a show with the intention of getting paid. Whenever I do, it's a pleasant surprise. I play because I want to play. I'm not desperate. Shit, I don't book shows, or ever ask. People come to me with shows, I say yes, and that's how we get our schedule set. But, like, I feel as if I'm portrayed as the illegal Mexican immigrant of live music. I'll do what you will do, for less or nothing, thus ruining YOUR money.

Thing is, I don't do what you do. The people that would book your band would not like my band one bit. And I never want them to. I play to express myself, and the moment I focus on money, I'm gonna use that money to buy a shotgun and a shell, and I'm gonna fucking off myself.

I don't know why I said any of this, except for that this was just a thread of people complaining about not getting paid.

I like this.

finger put upon point. that's what i couldn't articulate: the overall sense of entitledness of the original author and many of the blog commenters alike that they should be able to make a living as "professional musicians." in the case of the author, this seemed to include being hired whether he drew an audience or not. i'm sorry, but if nobody comes to see you, you shouldn't expect to get hired back repeatedly. come on. they're not running a charity for jazz saxophonists.

theavondon wrote:As someone who plays primarily "DIY" (for lack of a better term) shows in a band that plays no cover material and a 20 minute set, I feel almost as if I can't even relate to this. I've never played a show with the intention of getting paid. Whenever I do, it's a pleasant surprise. I play because I want to play. I'm not desperate. Shit, I don't book shows, or ever ask. People come to me with shows, I say yes, and that's how we get our schedule set. But, like, I feel as if I'm portrayed as the illegal Mexican immigrant of live music. I'll do what you will do, for less or nothing, thus ruining YOUR money.

Thing is, I don't do what you do. The people that would book your band would not like my band one bit. And I never want them to. I play to express myself, and the moment I focus on money, I'm gonna use that money to buy a shotgun and a shell, and I'm gonna fucking off myself.

I don't know why I said any of this, except for that this was just a thread of people complaining about not getting paid.

I hear ya on that. I have two bands, and my earlier comment was only in reference to my cover band. For my originals band, I don't give a shit about making money, because that's my outlet for creativity. Any chance to have other people hear the music is a bonus to me.

My covers band is something much different. It started as just buddies hanging out and playing covers in a shithole practice space. We eventually started playing gigs, and got paid a bit for it. But bar owners don't want a cover band that plays for half an hour. They want you to play ALL fucking night. We're talking marathon gigs with 3 sets. By the end of the night, I'm sore as fuck and feel like I just worked a shift at a construction site. That shit is WORK. And if I'm gonna work, I damn well am gonna get paid. Maybe that's just me being a dirty capitalist, but fuck it.

theavondon wrote:As someone who plays primarily "DIY" (for lack of a better term) shows in a band that plays no cover material and a 20 minute set, I feel almost as if I can't even relate to this. I've never played a show with the intention of getting paid. Whenever I do, it's a pleasant surprise. I play because I want to play. I'm not desperate. Shit, I don't book shows, or ever ask. People come to me with shows, I say yes, and that's how we get our schedule set. But, like, I feel as if I'm portrayed as the illegal Mexican immigrant of live music. I'll do what you will do, for less or nothing, thus ruining YOUR money.

Thing is, I don't do what you do. The people that would book your band would not like my band one bit. And I never want them to. I play to express myself, and the moment I focus on money, I'm gonna use that money to buy a shotgun and a shell, and I'm gonna fucking off myself.

I don't know why I said any of this, except for that this was just a thread of people complaining about not getting paid.

this. a thousand times this. the one venue that guarantees pay and a good crowd and a good night in this town won't let you use your own amp and has a terrible set up for a 2 piece

The only way to get really paid around here is to play in a cover band like BCBC said and do 3-4 45 minute sets. I live in a college town, tons of original bands. Pretty much one 40 minute set for each band on a bill. We have made $40 for a set a few times. Sometimes we donate our pay so a touring band can keep on going. We have played numerous benefits because A) we like the cause and B) they were at a good venue and were going to be big events. So it isn't about money for me either.
The parts of the article that I liked and seemed applicable is about the bands being totally responsible for the promotion and bringing in the crowd. I do my part to promote. Facebook has become lame for that, people seem to have become bombarded with stuff and don't pay attention to invites. Plus FB continually is changing stuff around. The only people on ReverbNation are other musicians for the main part. I think it's value is in being able to reach venues not in your hometown, easily. I don't like Twitter, does anybody promote effectively on there? I kind of miss MySpace back before it went to hell. For some reason it was easier to get a great response and see the benefits of online promoting.
I have put together an Art and Music fest a couple of times, one day events. I have had great success too. It was the biggest event that a decent sized venue had ever had one time. I had a very targeted audience. I flyered, did online promoting, but most importantly, I involved a lot of people and gave them a voice in how they think their portion of the event should go. I had 20 people that felt like a chunk of the event was "theirs". The amount of word-of-mouth was amazing. The fact that the show was run by creative, involved people that cared about the event made it unstoppable.
If venue owners could find some way to make the musician's feel like they have a say in how the night is run, they could do a lot better. Let bands figure a theme and the owner could spend $30 on supplies to dress the bar-up. It becomes like parties, different events, allowing bands to work with the owner, and have a stake in the success of the evening. Both parties would promote more effectively and the reputation of the venue would grow. Therefore crowds would grow, the better bands would play there, etc, etc, etc

dubkitty wrote:the monthly thing makes more sense, though again it's missing the point that a lot of bands who became popular did so in part by relentlessly caning themselves around their local market area...in addition to the folks cited above, Black Flag, the Grateful Dead, and the whole Seattle-area "grunge" boom exemplify this. perhaps the question is just how much of a draw you are, how much somebody wants to see you. and anyway, if somebody lives in Norman, OK or something, how many opportunities are they going to have to PLAY out of town without driving two or three hundred miles?

Yeah....but I'm wondering if "The Times" have changed that. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that I was one of the scene kids and not in a band....but we didn't have shit to do. We were almost forced to go to shows. It was the place to be. The big games out were Golden Eye and Warcraft II....not very time consuming. Not any social media kicking at all....at least it hadn't hit us, yet. TV didn't have a lot of channels....so it was either stay in and watch Leno and Conan or go hang out. We chose hang out, everytime. I could go see a band every other week and not care because we were all there to hang.

Shows have A LOT more entertaining things to compete with now than they did when Black Flag and The Pixies were going at it. Just a theory.

I dig what you're saying BCBC. And the issue of no venue promotion becomes all the more apparent when the venue explicitly doesn't give a shit about even having shows. My band threw a CD release show for our Christmas album an we decorated the basement of this pizza place with about $100 of christmas lights we immediately returned the next day. It was insane, garish, and incredibly fun. We worked for weeks before, making posters that were shaped like christmas ornaments and doing a bunch or similarly dorky shit, and as a a result, there ended up being double the legal capacity in the venue.

But man, that sucked and I don't want to do that for every show. Hence why I could be down for a venue to do something sometimes.