ilovefuzz.com

Eivind August wrote:Plenty of Norwegians are still registered as christians regardless of personal beliefs, though. Social stigma or something (mostly because of the elderly people). Polls seem to point towards us as a country of agnostics.

This is true in England, as well -- you are (or were, I guess, I don't know if it's changed a lot) sort of taught to default to listing CoE as your religious affiliation even if you weren't.

jrfox92 wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:Like I said and quoted earlier (it's almost as if I make posts with the expectation that people will read them), the difference has to do with scale -- If you gave one of our homegrown terrorist groups 8 million people and their own soverign state (why not Oregon ?! ) I would wager there would be a lot of overlap in behavior.

"A comprehensive demographic study of more than 200 countries finds that there are 2.18 billion Christians of all ages around the world"

[images removed]
I feel that it's necessary to point out that the largely Christian countries tend to be at war with the largely Muslim countries for one reason or another (oil, terrorism, sock puppets), so one could probably argue that who the "terrorists" are is just a matter of perspective.
Granted, Christians don't strap bombs to their kids and throw them into a crowd, but we do tend to hand them rifles and tell them this is an ideological war with Islam rather than a power play by first world countries.
Just to note, I only skimmed the last three pages of the thread.

Sure. What you don't have are 8 million armed fundamentalist Christians occupying a void in a war-ravaged region that was previously occupied by ruthless despots.

rustywire wrote:

psychic vampire. wrote:Looking at vast swaths of Eastern Europe, the result has been the same in Christian Countries?

psychic vampire. wrote:...
But like, ethics divergence within a population is a thing, to pretend that Islam is somehow this fucking hivemind is preposterous.

These two things are not mutually exclusive? Fundamentalist Christianity has had similar impacts in Europe throughout history as what Fundamentalist Islam is currently doing in Iraq and Syria. But this does not mean that all of the general population in either place agreed with or enjoyed living under the dictates of fundamentalist religion. How does this not read? Hiveminds were present in neither case. Dictates of religious extremism were. But all of Islam is no more prone to terrorism than all of Christianity is to terrorism. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen in both camps. Dare we even drag Judaism into this?

D.o.S. wrote: Sure. What you don't have are 8 million armed fundamentalist Christians occupying a void in a war-ravaged region that was previously occupied by ruthless despots.

In their own minds that's not off the table. When Trump calls election fraud as the reason for his Yooge loss (Sad!), I expect white Christian nationalists like Cliven Bundy's adherents to try their hand at at least some level of armed insurrection. (I'll be totally surprised who they declare the ruthless despot to be.) I would definitely expect attacks on federal land and buildings, and likely attacks on Park Service and Bureau of Land Management personnel. The fucksticks are just looking for an excuse. Given past performance (couple killing a cop at a Walmart and the bird sanctuary incident), this isn't really a stretch. Add on the disturbingly large number of "constitutional conservative" movement of white Christian nationalists who are drinking from the same trough of crazy, there are more who would sign on.

Really, the only thing holding it back is life is too good for most people to allow such apocalyptic nihilism to go that far in this country. If a financial collapse like a second shoe of 2008 came along at the time of the Trump insurrection, the scope could get beyond what many of us would expect. But democratic institutions will probably still be enough of an outlet (Tea Party 2: Electric Boogaloo), we haven't yet had all our infrastructure and institutions destroyed by invasion and/or ethnic/factional civil war, and we'd have to eclipse the economic catastrophe of 2008 or even 1929 to get a real break in the outlook of enough of the American people about the social order that they could go anywhere towards saying fuck it all and starting shooting. (25% unemployment was necessary to get to the New Deal three years later. You think an uptick to back over 10% will be enough for a civil war?)

There isn't anything fundamentally different about the seeds of violent fundamentalist crazy. It's just a question of which seeds find the most fertile soil.

Well put.
But also as I iterated before, Islamic fundamentalism has found a foothold in total power vacuums and a lack of law and infrastructure to stand in its way (which will also be its undoing, it can't sustain a state without them) which hasn't happened in the west, so these geese are confined to their closes ts for plotting and planning the end times.
No brainer.

Well, Trump either implied people should assassinate Hillary, or that he just realized he needs guns rights voters to win the election.

Either way he said it like an idiot.

Yeah, there was one talking head who said that if anyone else had said that, Secret Service woulda been on 'em like flies on shit.

look life's to short to write useless arguments on the internet. And while I am not a fan of non sufi islam to say that it is anymore fucked up and violent than christianity is like saying all history since 300AD didn't happen... also

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDFgLP44IQ0[/youtube]

Blackened Soul wrote:non sufi islam

You should change your name to "Blackened Sufi" or "Blackened Soufflé" or "Blackened So Flay"

Blackened So Fly?
Blackened Soul Fly?
Blackened Supa Fly?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_guUeWCE1g[/youtube]

Gone Fission wrote:There isn't anything fundamentally different about the seeds of violent fundamentalist crazy. It's just a question of which seeds find the most fertile soil.

Not to shortchange the rest of your post or the radness that is Blackened Soul (who is a near and dear ILF friend and sometime collaborator), but this is so money that Vince Vaughn could have made a career off of it.

psychic vampire. wrote:

rustywire wrote:

psychic vampire. wrote:Looking at vast swaths of Eastern Europe, the result has been the same in Christian Countries?

psychic vampire. wrote:...
But like, ethics divergence within a population is a thing, to pretend that Islam is somehow this fucking hivemind is preposterous.

These two things are not mutually exclusive? Fundamentalist Christianity has had similar impacts in Europe throughout history as what Fundamentalist Islam is currently doing in Iraq and Syria. But this does not mean that all of the general population in either place agreed with or enjoyed living under the dictates of fundamentalist religion. How does this not read? Hiveminds were present in neither case. Dictates of religious extremism were. But all of Islam is no more prone to terrorism than all of Christianity is to terrorism. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen in both camps. Dare we even drag Judaism into this?

(Can question marks be reserved for inquiries? It makes for more effective communication.)
Right then. So you weren't implying there's a Christian country hivemind? OK moving on.

Don't misunderstand my message, it is not criticism of Islam. Or Christianity. Or Judaism. Or religion. Or atheism. I'm skeptical of humans who spin yarn cozies around belief systems to justify their appetites. The depths of pettiness in people in their desire to be right. Something I've noticed about criticism is it can usually be attributed to projection.
If belief systems are an attempt for humans to make sense with structure, they will attract individuals who don't necessarily know what they're talking about, yet looking to one place for affirmation. When contradictory information is disregarded, dismissed, or deflected, bad information spawns justification for bad behavior, actions.
What's happening in Iraq & Syria are ancillary in relation, but hardly the cause of the issue in question: ideological extremism producing weaponized agents in a globalized world, thereby posing an existential threat to everyone.
Whatever Christian fundies did in Europe hundreds of years ago...or even in the modernized USA isn't necessarily relevant to what Islamist fundies are doing around the present world. If humans in each respective era live worlds apart from each other, then is it not cognitive dissonance to hold past individuals and practices up to present standards and values while selectively downplaying or excusing present individuals from responsibility for their decisions?

rustywire wrote:Whatever Christian fundies did in Europe hundreds of years ago...or even in the modernized USA isn't necessarily relevant to what Islamist fundies are doing around the present world. If humans in each respective era live worlds apart from each other, then is it not cognitive dissonance to hold past individuals and practices up to present standards and values while selectively downplaying or excusing present individuals from responsibility for their decisions?

most of those present standards and values are as old or older than the ones causing problems...

The big issues to me over all that more people need get is the simple shit, that shit like treat others as you want to be treated, question everything and eat your motherfucking vegetables [and yes I am aware of the irony that farming is actually the root of all these problems: greed, power, war, money, twinkies]

Not enough good neighbor steez