ilovefuzz.com

onyxrhino wrote:

goroth wrote:

onyxrhino wrote:I don't see anything underhanded going on here.

Have you read the same thread as the rest of ILF?

I read Tom's thread. He wasn't happy with them always offering 15% off. If there is another problem or if they have forced him to supply them with pedals somehow, I guess I missed it, sorry.

Tom Dalton wrote:I know it's great, as a customer, to find a good deal. I'm cool with seasonal sales. But my prices are already super low--because I want people to always get a good deal--and if I wanted my pedals to be 15% cheaper, I'd make MAP 15% lower (but my prices are too low to afford that).

I reminded Prymaxe about MAPs 3 times over an 18 month period...I never got any responses. When their site lists MAP, and an inch above that, advertises a never-ending 15% off, they're violating the MAPs that I've listed in every price sheet and multiple emails.


Summer 2012 was the start of a mini-crash, in my opinion thanks to their practices...I didn't hear from Prymaxe for almost 6 months. And when I did, Cory said his accountants told him he needed 5% extra profit on each pedal. They cut my MAP by 15% for a year and a half, then asked for 5% more--of course they needed 5% more! So I sent my 3rd request then for Prymaxe to honor my MAPs.

Cory emailed back, refusing, and suggesting that other dealers made me complain. So he called other dealers "over-the-hill," "sinking ships," that don't "know how to effectively run a business," and I was told that if I "want to keep on good terms with one of the most cutting edge companies in the business then you have to accept our business plan." I responded, reiterating my request for them to honor the MAPs they agreed on when they purchased my pedals. I also pointed out why he needs 5% extra, and let him know that I'm not one of his employees--that builders are the ones making him money by supplying a product for him to sell. He never responded, and my MAP continued to be slashed.

Since dropping them, my sales have increased. Other dealers who honor MAP agreements (and do seasonal sales) have placed new orders that have more than made up for not selling to Prymaxe, and direct sales have gone up. When customers resell my pedals, there won't be that additional 15% loss...and I'm not put out of business by a greedy retailer who doesn't give a shit about me.

veteransdaypoppy wrote::idk: I tend to keep my mouth shut when there's talk of my old stompin' grounds, but...

Almonds wrote: The second one I had to go to my post office to pay for shipping since Prymaxe somehow screwed up the weight of the package.

Yep, that's because they lie to USPS when they're printing their shipping labels. I was ordered to ship "25lb" 2x12 Combo Amps overseas on more than one occasion. If Prymaxe got caught in the lie, I got a good talkin' to (or a pay cut) even though I was only doing what I was told to do.

Tristan wrote:Wow, that's shit, I really didn't know that.
As an international customer it's even more attractive to buy from them because the shipping easily saves you another $20,- and they apparently have a handle to get things through customs easily and if that works it saves yet another 19% - 25%.

Yep, that's because they lie to USPS when they're printing their international labels. Sure, it saves you a quick buck... But don't be surprised when your pedal arrives completely unprotected in a paper-thin priority envelope.. That's what you're paying for.

It's kind of silly to be like "man, I saved all this money by shopping there!" and then say "man, my shit came broken in a ziplock bag with a first-class label on it!" once it arrives. You're getting what you pay for.

THEBEERHAMMER wrote:Honestly i saw this stuff coming a mile away. Especially with the online dealers. They all sell the same exact pedals so it seems like pricecutting is really the only way to compete. The only way youre going to eliminate this is having a gentlemans agreement that only certain dealers will sell certain brands or that certain models/finishes/features will be dealer exclusive. It was easier 7 or 8 years ago when pedal stores were still pretty quirky and specialized in certain types of effects and companies, but with everyone getting to the point where their stock looks the exact same, price is the only incentive to shop at one vs another. I understand that shady business is 100% prymaxes fault and Thom is my bro for life, but honestly pedal makers are at fault here too. You keep selling the same pedal with the same finish to every single dealer in the world and pretty soon people are going to stop buying your pedals new. If makers want to stop this shit from happening theyre going to have to limit the availability of their brands. Or just sell direct.

For instance, a simple google search for a dwarfcraft ECT shows 10 different US retailers selling the pedal in the exact same finish for the exact same price just on the first three pages. This may be alright now when pedals are still gaining popularity but this is a niche market and supply is already starting to creep up on demand. It looks like all the dealers have several in stock so we can assume they arent exactly flying off shelves. Whats going to happen in a couple months or a year when they still havent sold out of ETCs??? Theyre going to have to put them on sale eventually just to survive.

I understand being a small builder and wanting to keep the value on your product up, but you have just as much responsibility to maintain value as the dealer does, and I would personally say more. I think Thom and to a lesser extent ryan from dr sci do a great job of this by varying finishes and features every so often but it looks like every other small builder is completely ignoring this and flooding the market with their pedals. Its just kindof a shame that guys like Thom pay the price.

AngryGoldfish wrote:Also, what I find really... sad... but understandable, is when PGS come out with a 15% sale on, PryMaxe release a 16% sale. Have others noticed this?

THEBEERHAMMER wrote:Ive never received anything from prymass that wasnt well packaged. Sometimes they dont give me patch cables though.....

AngryGoldfish wrote:I've read most of this thread and have not noticed Pro Guitar Shop being mentioned. They have a 15% sale on every time I receive an email from them, which is weekly, maybe even more often than that. I know PGS are a little different in that they don't change the value on the packages in order to cut out VAT and duties. They used to but they've stopped doing it—or maybe they're only doing it every now and again. They often ship in boxes which costs more but secures the pedals well. They also exclude certain companies from the discounts, the ones that request it. This is better practise than PryMaxe who threatened Tom, but it's still not ideal. Maybe these pedal builders specifically sought to be exempt of the consistent 15% sale for a valid reason. I know Fulltone are one company who choose to omit themselves.

Also, what I find really... sad... but understandable, is when PGS come out with a 15% sale on, PryMaxe release a 16% sale. Have others noticed this?

THEBEERHAMMER wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote:I've read most of this thread and have not noticed Pro Guitar Shop being mentioned. They have a 15% sale on every time I receive an email from them, which is weekly, maybe even more often than that. I know PGS are a little different in that they don't change the value on the packages in order to cut out VAT and duties. They used to but they've stopped doing it—or maybe they're only doing it every now and again. They often ship in boxes which costs more but secures the pedals well. They also exclude certain companies from the discounts, the ones that request it. This is better practise than PryMaxe who threatened Tom, but it's still not ideal. Maybe these pedal builders specifically sought to be exempt of the consistent 15% sale for a valid reason. I know Fulltone are one company who choose to omit themselves.

Also, what I find really... sad... but understandable, is when PGS come out with a 15% sale on, PryMaxe release a 16% sale. Have others noticed this?

I refuse to shop at PGS because blooz demos.

foomanfat wrote:

THEBEERHAMMER wrote:Ive never received anything from prymass that wasnt well packaged. Sometimes they dont give me patch cables though.....

I think I got patch cables the first time I ordered from them and never since.
They used to pack well, but the last couple I've received were the just pedal box in an envelope.

JuJo wrote:

THEBEERHAMMER wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote:I've read most of this thread and have not noticed Pro Guitar Shop being mentioned. They have a 15% sale on every time I receive an email from them, which is weekly, maybe even more often than that. I know PGS are a little different in that they don't change the value on the packages in order to cut out VAT and duties. They used to but they've stopped doing it—or maybe they're only doing it every now and again. They often ship in boxes which costs more but secures the pedals well. They also exclude certain companies from the discounts, the ones that request it. This is better practise than PryMaxe who threatened Tom, but it's still not ideal. Maybe these pedal builders specifically sought to be exempt of the consistent 15% sale for a valid reason. I know Fulltone are one company who choose to omit themselves.

Also, what I find really... sad... but understandable, is when PGS come out with a 15% sale on, PryMaxe release a 16% sale. Have others noticed this?

I refuse to shop at PGS because blooz demos.

but you're ok with PRymaxe demos?