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Think about how much cooler this would be if it hadn't turned into "The tea party for left-leaners?"

Can you imagine a ton of people massing in front of Wall Street for no reason? Not a convoluted reason, but no political reason at all?

That would be fucking cool. I'd join that in a minute.

It was doomed from the start in that regard, the email archives of OWS got released over the weekend.

It was always planned to link up with the partisan crap unfortunately.

Get a room you two.

i don't totally support OWS but i don't totally oppose it either. much like slutwalk these sort of things are totally noninclusive and just express white liberal middle class frustration which i'm really bored of. BASICALLY MY OPINION IS LONG AND CONVOLUTED.

D.o.S. wrote:Can you imagine a ton of people massing in front of Wall Street for no reason? Not a convoluted reason, but no political reason at all?

That would be fucking cool. I'd join that in a minute.

i support this. ART.

plhogan wrote:Get a room you two.

I thought this movement was all about inclusion?

Now we've been sequestered to the ILF love-nest/gulag.

All are welcome in our love-nest/gulag. We have beer. And candies.

Also, it's not in Siberia. We're residing over in San Tropez.

for the record 'love nest/gulag' is the best thing i've heard this week

ashdown wrote:

That sign makes me think this girl is an idiot.

On a side note. I constantly hear "white" this or "white" that. For those of you on here that are white, is that an association you make if you were to define yourself? I'm just curious.

I have been thinking about this for the past... forever... and I don't think of myself as white - even though I am - or as an American - even though I was born here and lived here all my life. I don't consider myself a New Yorker, even though I lived there for seventeen years, or as a Bostonian even though I have lived here since leaving New York. I don't think of myself as being affiliated with any particular political party, etc. I don't believe in patriotism, ethnocentrism, religion, etc. I don't think of myself as middle class - though I am in the lower middle class. Basically all the ways by which a person typically defines themselves in relation to groups. I suppose the only thing I even remotely identify as is a man, but even then I don't consider male and man to be the same thing, and as a consequence don't think of most of the males around me as men, so I still don't associate there. None of this is to say anti-social. I feel very comfortable in groups, but I don't actually feel any pull by the desires or needs or ideas of the group.

Maybe this should be in a separate thread since it's going off on a tangent, but I think it's kind of related. From what I have seen with the people I know IRL, the stronger their group definitions the more they connect with these kinds of causes/movements. The same thing goes from emotions. The more emotional they are in general, the more likely they are to be a part of these types of causes/movements.

I identify myself as a honky cracker.

Seriously though,....I subscribe to the Goerge Carlin School of though on that sort of thing. Why the fuck would I be proud of something that I have no control over. Why would I be filled with pride because my parents fucked in America. I'm paraphrasing here.

I don't really care for groups,...subsects,...subgenres,...things that can be used to define and divide. What I do know is that I'm an insignificant spec having a short illusioned reality on tiny rock in an unassuming solar system in a medium sized galaxy hurtling around a huge potentially infinite space/time.

warwick.hoy wrote:I identify myself as a honky cracker.

Seriously though,....I subscribe to the Goerge Carlin School of though on that sort of thing. Why the fuck would I be proud of something that I have no control over. Why would I be filled with pride because my parents fucked in America. I'm paraphrasing here.

I don't really care for groups,...subsects,...subgenres,...things that can be used to define and divide. What I do know is that I'm an insignificant spec having a short illusioned reality on tiny rock in an unassuming solar system in a medium sized galaxy hurtling around a huge potentially infinite space/time.

yes

jfrey wrote:On a side note. I constantly hear "white" this or "white" that. For those of you on here that are white, is that an association you make if you were to define yourself? I'm just curious.

I have been thinking about this for the past... forever... and I don't think of myself as white - even though I am - or as an American - even though I was born here and lived here all my life. I don't consider myself a New Yorker, even though I lived there for seventeen years, or as a Bostonian even though I have lived here since leaving New York. I don't think of myself as being affiliated with any particular political party, etc. I don't believe in patriotism, ethnocentrism, religion, etc. I don't think of myself as middle class - though I am in the lower middle class. Basically all the ways by which a person typically defines themselves in relation to groups. I suppose the only thing I even remotely identify as is a man, but even then I don't consider male and man to be the same thing, and as a consequence don't think of most of the males around me as men, so I still don't associate there. None of this is to say anti-social. I feel very comfortable in groups, but I don't actually feel any pull by the desires or needs or ideas of the group.

Maybe this should be in a separate thread since it's going off on a tangent, but I think it's kind of related. From what I have seen with the people I know IRL, the stronger their group definitions the more they connect with these kinds of causes/movements. The same thing goes from emotions. The more emotional they are in general, the more likely they are to be a part of these types of causes/movements.

warwick.hoy wrote:I identify myself as a honky cracker.

Seriously though,....I subscribe to the Goerge Carlin School of though on that sort of thing. Why the fuck would I be proud of something that I have no control over. Why would I be filled with pride because my parents fucked in America. I'm paraphrasing here.

I don't really care for groups,...subsects,...subgenres,...things that can be used to define and divide. What I do know is that I'm an insignificant spec having a short illusioned reality on tiny rock in an unassuming solar system in a medium sized galaxy hurtling around a huge potentially infinite space/time.

I agree. This is why I sorta think races, culture, religions are all bullshit, I see it all as a way to keep people divided and distracted from stuff that should be a lot more important. I work with dudes that fall into the cult of manz and [one of them to a annoying amount] the whole homeland BS as well [the other one] the whole U.S.A bs... and so I am dubbed as French.. [I guess one could say I come from a culturally french family... Thankfully I do not deal with any of my relatives anymore] because my last name is french... and have to say my fucking name in a bad french accent... whatever... it's all just lame bs in the end. All of it.

indeed.

Mudfuzz wrote:I agree. This is why I sorta think races, culture, religions are all bullshit

i was going to try not to speak on this talking point because jfrey wasn't looking for my nonwhite opinion, but it's easy to say races and cultures and whatever are bullshit when you're a part of the majority. we all have culture, but white culture isn't usually recognized as one because the norm is seen to be the standard. culture isn't just something to keep us divided, if you're part of a minority culture it's a very important part of who you are. it's how you grew up. it's how your parents grew up. it's how people react to you. it's your rituals, beliefs, tastes, etc. it many ways, it's a (sometimes depressing) form of determinism. it's not just bullshit and it's not just shit to 'keep us divided.'

ignoring 'divisions' and races doesn't make them stop existing and affecting your life and life choices. and especially in the case of races, can even be more harmful. no one does anything in a vacuum. even though you can consciously say you aren't affected by these kinds of groupings doesn't make it true- jfrey, the thing is, you don't have to 'feel' the pull of the group for it to have any impact on you. society works collectively. none of us just 'exist' outside of culture, because we all are culture.

i think this would make an interesting different thread, although you would really only be getting like one opinion. there's probably some literature out about this, too

unownunown wrote:it's easy to say races and cultures and whatever are bullshit when you're a part of the majority.

Agreed.

That's a fair point Epi,...and I agree with you that culture isn't bullshit,...but at some point you have to concede that our differences are used by the media and the powers that be to perpetuate irrational fear amongst the herd.

While I think that people are getting better about it,...for a lot of white people there is nothing scarier then the "urban" hordes coming to invade the "safety" of gated suburbia. There is nothing scarier to Americans then the terrorist sleeper cells that are set up in every town (oh no there is a brown man in a thawb,...he must be a terrorist,....he probably beats his wife too). There is nothing scarier to christian fundamentalists then a homosexual come to infect the rest of the heterosexual population with gay and aids.

I'll admit that I'm playing it up (and I'm not saddled with these fears),...but I don't doubt that there are an awful lot of dumb sheeple that have had these irrational and unsubstantiated fears forced into their feeble brains,...meanwhile the real crooks, terrorists and deviants are looting their pensions, stealing their homes and sending their children to die in a desert (in order to protect them from these fabricated nightmares).

unownunown wrote:if you're part of a minority culture it's a very important part of who you are. it's how you grew up. it's how your parents grew up. it's how people react to you. it's your rituals, beliefs, tastes, etc. it many ways, it's a (sometimes depressing) form of determinism.

Ah but isn't that determinism brought on by how the minority culture is treated by and thought of by the majority culture? How is having to feel determined against something a good thing?