raising kids without gender

[phantasmagorovich]

On a hypothetical basis, the researchers assume a similar mutational pattern in humans. In the mass of 6 billion humans living on this planet, it may be assumed statistically that somewhere there is someone with at least one mutated base pair for every part of the genome. At that level, evolution is able to test through mutations at high speed, rather than the assumed working space of thousands or even millions of years.

http://scienceray.com/biology/measuring-the-speed-of-evolution/

I thought I had read something about the speed of evolution being much quicker than generally assumed. You still might be right about methods of compensation for our atavistic traits. I am pretty sure I will fan the flames, but let me suggest Freuds view on this: Those very methods are called culture.
(Drumsticks are of course an example.)

[dubkitty]

"Those very methods are called culture. (Drumsticks are of course an example.)"

yes. i like to say that one benefit of civilization is that now we hit each other with attorneys instead of stones and clubs

i'm not convinced about the accellerated-evolution thing, though. when i look around the world, it seems that everywhere including the West people devolve to a lowest common denominator as soon as they have the opportunity. the chavs in Britain and the poor people of the US Pacific Northwest, who are quite Caucasian, have ghetto behaviors every bit as self-destructive as those of inner-city blacks in Detroit, and wars from Bosnia to Sri Lanka turn into atrocity-fests at the drop of a bayonet regardless of the ethnicity of the perpetrators/combatants. i guess my hopeful idealism croaked somewhere between the killing fields of Cambodia and Tienanmen Square. it would sure be nice if they were correct, though.

i think it's more that culture provides reinforcements for and against behaviors that have particular effects. isn't that where practical morals--as different to what we might call "ick-factor" morals--come from? i.e. society discourages theft because when folks get their stuff stolen disorder ensues as they seek revenge. but that's rather splitting hairs, whether it's a biological evolution or a cultural system that evolves to deal with an organic state which doesn't evolve in a timely manner.

[dubkitty]

the thing i'm wondering about the Scienceray article is: wouldn't a mutated pair in each genome in an organism of the complexity of a human be awfully likely to lead to birth defects that would kill the offspring? sorry, my brain is just wired for Find The Flaw. if i'd gone to college when i was young i'd have made a scientist.

[jfrey]

On a hypothetical basis, the researchers assume a similar mutational pattern in humans. In the mass of 6 billion humans living on this planet, it may be assumed statistically that somewhere there is someone with at least one mutated base pair for every part of the genome. At that level, evolution is able to test through mutations at high speed, rather than the assumed working space of thousands or even millions of years.

Even if there are these isolated cases of rapid evolution it would still take thousands(?) of years for it to become dominant. I think when most people talk about our evolution, they mean as a race - not like one guy over in Africa, and maybe some other guy in Alaska, etc.

[McSpunckle]

Although, when a certain set of traits is less desirable sexually, it will eventually result in that genetic feature becoming increasingly more rare, possibly to the benefit of the human race.

I'm speaking, of course, about gingers.

[dubkitty]

less desireable to YOU

[devnulljp]

I'm speaking, of course, about gingers.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw[/youtube]

Ginger is actually pretty interesting. It's a mutation in a the MC1R gene, encoding the melanocortin 1 receptor. Same mutation as in golden retrievers and rock pocket mice BTW. There's a dozen or so known polymorphisms in that gene that reappear throughout the animal kingdom regulating coat and skin colour. MC1R is turned on and off selectively in a leopard to give it its spots, and the reason you get panthers is because of a mutation that causes an all-black phenotype. There are no polymorphisms in this gene in African populations BTW, so it seems to have been highly constrained throughout evolution.
If you like, I can do the math as you guys started talking about evolution rates -- but really it varies depending on what you mean and what site(s) you're looking at as well as the strength of the selection and the size of the population. Classic example is turning an all sandy coloured population of rock pocket mice into an all-black population following a lava flow, changing the environment from sandy to black, which also changed the selection pressure to favour black mice. There are 4 different loci that differ between mice of the different coat colours. You can get a full colour change in the population by
t = (2/s)Ln(2Nsub_e) generations
So you can go from one to the other in something like 2000 generations, which is only about 2000 years. Not even a blink of an eye in geological terms.

[dubkitty]

the thing that screws with the conjecture of rates, though, is that the amount of genetic change that would be necessary to alter evolutionarily hard-wired aspects isn't known. is it one pair? two? twelve? and would one change be sufficient, or would you need multiple changes in a particular series and order? it's like when folks postulate the odds of extraterrestrial life...there are an awful lot of assumptions which all have to be correct in order for the hypothesis to be true which can't be shown at this time.

please don't mistake me; though i'm skeptical, i'm not saying it's impossible. i'm just saying it's going to be very difficult to detect or to show empirically, which you've got to do if you're doing science. unless you're an economist LOL.

[Invisible Man]

Bump for raising my kids as Nazis.

[popvulture]

[D.o.S.]

You two culture vultures better tone it down and show some respect for your elders.

[Invisible Man]

I think shitting on their graves is a more fitting tribute.

[BetterOffShred]

I worked in a diesel shop for 6 years and everything was horribly grey or brown in color, so I got a florescent orange tool box.. and have since painted numerous pedal enclosures in hot pink and yellow etc. So my son says the other day 'daddy likes girl colors'.. I about shit. He's 5.. so we had a big conversation about how things like color can't be classified by gender affiliation. Which of course due to like 75 years of advertising socialization .. totally are classified by gender. Which I think is totally bananas. Some shit reflecting certain wavelengths of light.. is for girls? Damn science you win again.

[Invisible Man]

http://www.esquireme.com/culture/nazi-colour-coding

Not the best source, but I'm sleepy.

Lest ye forget, this is the internet. All roads lead to Hitler.

[Antlerface]

http://www.esquireme.com/culture/nazi-colour-coding

Not the best source, but I'm sleepy.

Lest ye forget, this is the internet. All roads lead to Hitler.

It's like hitler won the internet by accident. Better than that dang war. Oh well.