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I know how you feel - 1 drummer in 8 years

CaptainBoxman wrote:The only drummers I know play standard 4/4 beats in various tempos. Never had a good or interesting drummer to play with ever. So uninspiring and bland and amatuer sounding

Well, in all fairness, playing outside of 4/4 is a lot harder on drums than it is on guitar. It really doesn't make any difference when you play 7/8 on guitar, but 7/8 on drums takes months of practising to get the hang of, and that's just one odd timing. There are much, much harder ones like 15/16 that only a few drummers on the planet can comfortably play. I know how frustrating it is to be stuck within 4/4 because the drummer, despite being good, just doesn't want to veer outside that pocket. Just remember that it's not because they don't want to or haven't practised enough, it's because it's like trying to demand your guitarist to sweep pick; it's incredibly difficult.

Find some sick nasty MC to beatbox his Neil Peart impression for you

AngryGoldfish wrote:

CaptainBoxman wrote:The only drummers I know play standard 4/4 beats in various tempos. Never had a good or interesting drummer to play with ever. So uninspiring and bland and amatuer sounding

Well, in all fairness, playing outside of 4/4 is a lot harder on drums than it is on guitar. It really doesn't make any difference when you play 7/8 on guitar, but 7/8 on drums takes months of practising to get the hang of, and that's just one odd timing. There are much, much harder ones like 15/16 that only a few drummers on the planet can comfortably play. I know how frustrating it is to be stuck within 4/4 because the drummer, despite being good, just doesn't want to veer outside that pocket. Just remember that it's not because they don't want to or haven't practised enough, it's because it's like trying to demand your guitarist to sweep pick; it's incredibly difficult.

I meant it more in the sense that the drummer will play the same beat for EVERY SONG, bum tssh bumbum tssh, for EVERY FUCKING SONG EVER. No variety, no attempt at creativity, no fills, no change ups, no half or double time for changes. I don't expect every drummer ro be Brann Dailor, but the lack of any effort is disturbing

AngryGoldfish wrote:

CaptainBoxman wrote:The only drummers I know play standard 4/4 beats in various tempos. Never had a good or interesting drummer to play with ever. So uninspiring and bland and amatuer sounding

Well, in all fairness, playing outside of 4/4 is a lot harder on drums than it is on guitar. It really doesn't make any difference when you play 7/8 on guitar, but 7/8 on drums takes months of practising to get the hang of, and that's just one odd timing. There are much, much harder ones like 15/16 that only a few drummers on the planet can comfortably play. I know how frustrating it is to be stuck within 4/4 because the drummer, despite being good, just doesn't want to veer outside that pocket. Just remember that it's not because they don't want to or haven't practised enough, it's because it's like trying to demand your guitarist to sweep pick; it's incredibly difficult.

Yeah I was trying to get some syncopation in this one song last night to see what it would sound like(I was on bass) and every time we tried it my drummer would automatically correct himself and unsyncopate(is that a word?) it so that everything lined up. He was telling me that when you learn drums you mainly learn having a steady beat and even adding offbeats is incredibly difficult at first because they have to almost unlearn things. Uneven time signatures are even worse because its so foreign, you have to add this offbeat at the end then like start again without the onbeat you would expect, so its hard to maintain it throughout an entire song.

CaptainBoxman wrote:

AngryGoldfish wrote:

CaptainBoxman wrote:The only drummers I know play standard 4/4 beats in various tempos. Never had a good or interesting drummer to play with ever. So uninspiring and bland and amatuer sounding

Well, in all fairness, playing outside of 4/4 is a lot harder on drums than it is on guitar. It really doesn't make any difference when you play 7/8 on guitar, but 7/8 on drums takes months of practising to get the hang of, and that's just one odd timing. There are much, much harder ones like 15/16 that only a few drummers on the planet can comfortably play. I know how frustrating it is to be stuck within 4/4 because the drummer, despite being good, just doesn't want to veer outside that pocket. Just remember that it's not because they don't want to or haven't practised enough, it's because it's like trying to demand your guitarist to sweep pick; it's incredibly difficult.

I meant it more in the sense that the drummer will play the same beat for EVERY SONG, bum tssh bumbum tssh, for EVERY FUCKING SONG EVER. No variety, no attempt at creativity, no fills, no change ups, no half or double time for changes. I don't expect every drummer ro be Brann Dailor, but the lack of any effort is disturbing

Ah, I see! Yeah, that's just a drummer who isn't very good.

I was fortunate in that my last drummer, who I'm going to visit in England for his wedding in May, was an incredibly creative drummer. He was a genius in my eyes. Although he couldn't do some of the more complex stuff that I was hoping for, he always threw me off with his creativity, had great timing, and just understood the dynamics of a song. Brilliant musician. I know plenty of drummers who are 'technically' better than him, but none who could reach his level of creativity, vision and musicality.

wafl wrote:Yeah I was trying to get some syncopation in this one song last night to see what it would sound like(I was on bass) and every time we tried it my drummer would automatically correct himself and unsyncopate(is that a word?) it so that everything lined up. He was telling me that when you learn drums you mainly learn having a steady beat and even adding offbeats is incredibly difficult at first because they have to almost unlearn things. Uneven time signatures are even worse because its so foreign, you have to add this offbeat at the end then like start again without the onbeat you would expect, so its hard to maintain it throughout an entire song.

It's almost impossible unless you've been practising it for a long time to maintain a constant off-beat, and it's even harder to throw them in midway through a song. One of the most complex songs I listen to is Mastodon's Blaedecatcher. I remember reading this interview with Brann regarding the fans' criticism of the album Blood Mountain being coined as too 'simple'. He pointed to Bladecatcher, and described its complexities. It shut everyone up. I've learned it before on guitar, and it took weeks and upon weeks to even play once or twice all the way through without making a mistake. I can only imagine it's a lot harder on drums, simply because of all the time changes and off-beat rolls.

Have your drummer listen to some old Helmut. They have a ton of songs where the drums play a straight up 4/4 under a 5/8 riff or similar and it sounds syncopated as hell. Also Zeppelin. Jamming along to Zeppelin is a great way for a drummer to learn time signatures.

Also... great to have another Vancouverian doom roomer.

Tool and Deftones as well.

Bossk wrote:I drank a lot of mead last night.

Commercial mead or homebrew? There's a relatively local meadery (B. Nektar) that I've been meaning to try, but we usual have enough homebrew around (and drink it so slowly) that buying mead is unnecessary.

Bossk wrote:I drank a lot of mead last night and played battlefield 4 alone and talked a lot of shit. I ordered some vegan bread (its like a weird crescent calzone thats vegan) and i forgot i ordered it, so I aye something else. Then it came. And i ate it to 30 rock.

But to reiterate, russian imperial stouts are the best.

I haven't had mead in a good while. It's just not big down here from what I can tell. I might seek some out sooner rather than later. Will be looking for that Stoutnik and Titan as well.

fallen wrote:

HeavyXIII wrote:Had a talk with drummer guy last night about his song writing expectations. He's really involved, which is great, but he gets bogged down in details that are secondary to actually finishing a song. He told me he wanted to change a part to accentuate a rhythm, but it boiled down to switching a minor beat on an otherwise identical part. I actually thought he was fucking with me at first. But after I told him what I thought was what (you know, like finishing the fucking song) we seemed to level out. At least he admits that he's pretty pretentious.

This sounds awesome to me. It's great to have a drummer who's involved in the details and how rhythms move through a song. So many songs are just the same beat and picking pattern through the whole song just with different notes, or they never change tempo.

There's got to be a way to actually get songs finished and then have him take recordings and add details like that in later. Best of both worlds.

Honestly, I think a lot of the issue is actually me. I think I just need help learning to mesh with his style. Any pointers? I feel like maybe I stay on his beats too closely because every time I play a part to accompany drums they all end up at the same pace/rhythm.

CaptainBoxman wrote:Oh bros, I had a fucking weird night

Some welsh/chinese dude I met lastnight had a fight eith his girlfriend and was then totally trying to get me to meet up with him for intimate 'drugs'

Two other dudes were hiding a gay affair and started cuddling up on me when they assumed I was asleep

Saw my friend vomit upwards in a beautiful caacade of stomach acid and noodles

Woke up this morning to last nights madras trying to force it's way out with the power of chilli and fire

Fairly sure some dude kept goi g on about porking my ex

Got real fucking high and saw the poshest girl in the world try to get off with a bunch of dudes 'moshing' to system of a down and then got smacked in the face when I had to nelson a sude trying to kill his mate

I love house parties

goddamn i miss the 90s

Last nights show ruled. First one with a new drummer and he nailed it. We never sounded so good. Matamp and aor ruled. Got tons of compliments on the sound. Dammit I'm ready to play again. I hope someone took video or pics.

t-rey wrote:

spawnofthesith wrote:I love rwake, never heard the term post sludge before though, more bands like this?

Hey T-rey, several pages back I saw that you have a zap machine on your board. I just ordered one from Prymaxe today, what can I expect?

At first I was using it as low gain/overdrive kind of sounds on green and complete obliteration on red. Last time I played it, I switched it up and actually use the green for the heavy sounds and low-mid gain on red. It balanced the volume and tones so that both are awesome instead of one being awesome and the other being acceptable.

The thing I have been most impressed by is the clarity of the thing. Even with the gain maxed out, you can actually hear all of the notes in a chord. I think the best description I have heard so far is like a tonebender on steroids.

Overall, I have been really happy with it. There is a bit of overlap with my Black Forest, but that's just because both pedals are pretty versatile, and if I were to let one of them go, it wouldn't be the Zap.

wafl wrote:

CaptainBoxman wrote:Dudes, real high, think male acquaintance was just comng on to me, what do

I say just go with it.

Also my favourite stout was named.... Stoutnik!

It was strong without being too bitter, but it was also the most expensive one I've had.

I need that. Russian Imperials are the correct stouts, imo.

CaptainBoxman wrote:Oh bros, I had a fucking weird night

Some welsh/chinese dude I met lastnight had a fight eith his girlfriend and was then totally trying to get me to meet up with him for intimate 'drugs'

Two other dudes were hiding a gay affair and started cuddling up on me when they assumed I was asleep

Saw my friend vomit upwards in a beautiful caacade of stomach acid and noodles

Woke up this morning to last nights madras trying to force it's way out with the power of chilli and fire

Fairly sure some dude kept goi g on about porking my ex

Got real fucking high and saw the poshest girl in the world try to get off with a bunch of dudes 'moshing' to system of a down and then got smacked in the face when I had to nelson a sude trying to kill his mate

I love house parties

Cool man, thanks for the info, I'm excited. I've heard the higher gain channel sounds a bit like a ratt, would you agree?

And CaptainBoxman. ..

Guys, am I...am I doomy enough?

If we say "no," does the cat melt us with laser eyebeams?