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Invisible Man wrote:
But no, really: there’s goofing and there’s antagonism. I disagree with tons of shit people say, but you gotta recognize that trying to fight people on the internet is fucking dumb and ineffective. Who gives a shit ‘who the problem is?’ Did we solve rape with this thread? Were we ever in danger of doing so? Did we teach echorec anything? I sure as shit learned nothing, but liked reading about diapers.

I stand 100% for what I said - a statement like what echorec said to start this shitstorm was either trolling or fucking stupid. It's seldom that I get wound up and call people out like that, but it got me wound up.
I don't think what I said was helpful, or in the spirit of good dialogue. I'm fairly certain it contributed to Echo going bananas.
Theoretically, this is a place where people should be able to talk about anything. But that ability to discuss anything has to be weighed against the fact that some topics are going to require more thought than others.
"This overdrive sucks" is never going to get as divisive/loaded with the potential to go wrong as "Your comment on rape sucks".
Anyone clicking on this thread should have known that and gone into it as such (including myself).
I'm going to stick to talking about the Velcrobot.

This thread was about as fun as eating Arby's.

And just as fun on the way out.

goroth wrote:.
"This overdrive sucks" is never going to get as divisive/loaded with the potential to go wrong as "You're comment on rape sucks".

your.*

Duly noted.
For the record I'm not calling anyone a rape comment.

Not to make light of a shitty subject but sorry that was funny.

I liked it more than when you wrote 'pens in vagina' earlier, which was truly horrifying given the subject.

We all get some grace even when we're horrifying hefty bags full of blood and viscera, or, worse, when we make mistakes in typing. Which is basically all I've been trying to say.

goroth wrote:I stand 100% for what I said - a statement like what echorec said to start this shitstorm was either trolling or fucking stupid. It's seldom that I get wound up and call people out like that, but it got me wound up.

It doesn't matter what I think. If you feel wound up, then go for it. The results are predictable if nothing else, which is something I'm sure we agree on.

Toast.

Invisible Man wrote:

goroth wrote:I stand 100% for what I said - a statement like what echorec said to start this shitstorm was either trolling or fucking stupid. It's seldom that I get wound up and call people out like that, but it got me wound up.

It doesn't matter what I think. If you feel wound up, then go for it. The results are predictable if nothing else, which is something I'm sure we agree on.

Exactly - the results are predictable.
So I should have perhaps predicted them before stating it. And perhaps stated the same sentiment in a manner more conducive to dialogue and less to helping a dude implode.

Chili dog

Popcorn shrimp.

Scrambled eggs.

Banana mango chili pop

popvulture wrote:I don't get the anti (fictional) hivemind stuff. That's likely people just longing for the days when they could be more openly offensive? Those good ol' days of men being shitheads online. Seems like when people feel that lame safehaven is being threatened, they start throwing out comments about PC and SJWs.

+1 for this.
I don't like to make my politics anyone on here's business unless asked directly, but I think that's okay because most of our discussions are apolitical jokefests. That said, reading some of the tone deaf justifications/arguing where rape begins (totally missing the point that sexual assault is equally indefensible - who gives a fuck if there's penetration when someone uses their power to remove the agency, sexual or otherwise, of another person????) I can definitely say that I'd not stick around a forum where there wasn't immediate backlash for that kind of comment. Y'all some good folks (mostly ).

Anyways, focusing on the original topic of this thread, I'm glad that a lot of sexual harassment is coming to light, and that people are facing consequences. Hopefully some of them are even actually learning why their behavior was problematic? However, I'm seriously skeptical because the real importance of these high profile cases largely isn't matriculating its way down the social food chain. It's good to clean up certain industries, however there's still all the small town fast food chains employing local HS girls, where the boss man lets them know that the only way up is to be complicit with their sexual advances & that sticks with people their entire lives. I remember a few years ago a friend of mine explained to me in tears how her own history of sexual abuses (physical or linguistic) was more or less hidden from her because it seemed like the way life was from when she was old enough to question it. She described feeling alienated regularly, but blamed herself for not feeling like it was okay to be treated that way, as though she was in the wrong for feeling uncomfortable and/or threatened when she received unsolicited sexual advances. That shit hurt me to hear, and it hurts even more knowing my girlfriend and basically every other female friend I have share those experiences.

If we're not self-critiquing, learning how to be better, and having these kinds of discussions shit won't ever get better. I was in a fraternity in college and recently had the realization that some of the people I called 'brother', some of the people I listened for years talk about partying & joke of getting chicks wasted, weren't actually joking & were instead actually committing real, unsolicited acts of sexual aggression. I didn't think those conversations were particularly funny then, but I tolerated them bc I thought it was just what men do. Let me tell you, those 'jokes' have certainly not aged well & I don't find them funny in the least now. I veritably planned and hosted at least one party where someone I know sexually assaulted someone else I know. And I'm almost certain that I feel worse about that than the actual perpetrators of those assaults.

Anyways, just dropping by to share part of my takeaway from this cultural phenomenon & I'm more than happy to have weird and difficult discussions with anyone else who is understanding how they've been complicity in this toxic culture, reckoning with behavior they've since come to regret, or just wants to talk about these things. love y'all.