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goroth wrote:To clarify: I think Phil is a dick. And his pathetic attempts to prove he isn't a racist but just misunderstood are just crazy.

What I find odd is the question "s it a case of a minority of assholes thinking this is acceptable, or something common within the metal scene?". I mean, metal has racists, apologists and stupid fucking fans like any other genre. It also has people who don't fall into that category. Talking about the attitude of a metal fan isn't possible, just as it isn't possible to generalise about the attitudes of fans of any particular scene. Even overtly ideological scenes have their differences, but to even assume that a genre as broad as metal could be categorised in this way is fairly naive. Sorry to single you out Swordfish.

exactly...within the groups of people i hang out with now and in the past, the metal heads i've been friends with have been the most open minded people. I always saw the metal community as a group of outcasts who bond through appreciation of music and off beat topics and accept anyone who wants to join, without care for race, religion, social class or whatever.

But as Goroth says idiots are everywhere and in every scene...what i've come across have been people that i relate to, thus my skewed version of what metal fans are like.

I've also read this argument about metal fans becoming sensitive all of a sudden in relation to the reaction to this event...and that argument is bullshit...the metal fans i know would have been against this kind of behaviour back in the 80's and are against this kind of behaviour now.

NEWS FLASH: Longtime bandmate of dude with confederate flag signature guitar "might" be racist.

Don't know much about Phil or Pantera (or the other projects he's worked on), but all I can think about when I hear this is the kind of insane, creepy, scared little minds that people like this must have. Just sit around all day hating people, blaming them for the world's problems...I get where it comes from, but what a waste of a life.

FretNoMore wrote:

the raytownian wrote:Yes. It's called not getting bent out of shape over literally everything.

I'd say some things are worth "getting bent out of shape over" though, and racism is one of those things.

Agreed. Can we skip the "PC police" BS here? If you are *not* upset by some of the shit going on right now (and in the past), you are fucked up and need to find some empathy deep within yourself. It isn't bad to ask the people around you to act like decent people who care about the wellbeing of others.

PS - can we stop using the word literally in inappropriate and incorrect ways? The hyperbolic and flat out wrong usage makes me want to burn it all down.

literally burn it all down.

now as to whether metal attracts these kinds of people in more droves than others... I mean, possibly, but that's because it's testosterone-y pop music (i.e. follows musical conventions that are familiar to the ear of listeners raised on the guitar-friendly radio) and that attracts a wide swathe of aggressively testicularized folks (of all genders) who tend to view things in the light of confrontation. Subtle isn't the default mode when you've got album covers festooned with skulls and the like, you know?

OTOH: I don't think your average Pantera fan is more racist than, say, your average Death in June fan... just that there are more of them.

Meh. Dumbass hillbilly spouting off dumbass hillbilly shit. So it goes.
The more he does this, the better.

I'm not at all surprised by this. I watched when that was on social media everywhere, what last week? It seemed normal for Phil to say it and I thought it was common knowledge that he was kind of a skin head. Hence the look and pretty much everything about Pantera. I'll admit, I do love their music and that it makes me dislike him as a person more than I did originally. So messed up. The worst thing is his excuse for it. I fucking LOVE Machine Head's front man calling him on it though! That shit was hilarious! I absolutely love Machine Head too. So he didn't get away with it, but no one will do anything. Their whole thing was about Southern pride. I mean, it's pretty obvious to me. Redneck's usually are racist. Not always, but usually in my experience.

I've seen this more times though than just from Phil. So it's kind of surprising that this isn't more of a hunt on all the racist asshole bands that do shit like this on the regs. There are probably a lot more than you'd think.

D.o.S. wrote:Subtle isn't the default mode when you've got album covers festooned with skulls and the like, you know?

Exactly. Rule number one of heavy metal is to piss people off. Phil has done that for decades. Big loudmouth screamer uses big loud mouth to scream. SHOCKING.

There is a lot of racism in metal. However, there is a lot more inclusion. At least that has been my experience as an ignorant headbanger for the past 30+ years.

Yeah, but it's also Phil's role in the history of metal. I mean, no one gives a shit if Arghoslent release yet another album of anti-Semitic crap because even in the grand scheme of obscure extreme metal bands... they're pretty obscure. But Pantera pretty much single handedly kept harder metal in the mainstream spotlight during the 90s. Whether or not they were the progenitors of their sound, they had an enormous influence on the shape of future metal. Vinny Paul's kicks, Phil's tough guy vocals, Dime's ridiculous guitar tone...
It's weird, despite Phil being the most active of the remaining band members, I think he's arguably the one most connected to Pantera and their legacy. So when he does stupid shit it's kinda symbolic for the whole genre doing stupid shit.

But I mean, metal is, apart from it's function as pop music as DoS rightly pointed out, it is music for outsiders, and there is going to be a range of expression in metal that you perhaps won't find in too many other genres. And all of it is complicated by the fact that it's a bunch of mostly angry white men making that music.

... It's tough being a metal head

Sure, but to the converse of that:I see absolutely no need to apologize for being a metalhead because Phil from Pantera got drunk and said a bunch of stupid shit. In fact, I categorically reject the idea, and I'm almost sure everyone does.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzoebhQ7hjQ[/youtube]

D.o.S. wrote:Sure, but to the converse of that:I see absolutely no need to apologize for being a metalhead because Phil from Pantera got drunk and said a bunch of stupid shit. In fact, I categorically reject the idea, and I'm almost sure everyone does.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzoebhQ7hjQ[/youtube]

For sure man.

goroth wrote:I mean, no one gives a shit if Arghoslent release yet another album of anti-Semitic crap because even in the grand scheme of obscure extreme metal bands... they're pretty obscure.

I refused to listen to them when they first became a thing, but a friend of mine mailed me one of their albums because he wanted it out of his collection. My wife does NOT approve of it being on our shelves. Wait, I mean, I totally got rid of that years ago!

There is loads of angry music about making the world better. Even pantera gets at some of this, respect and family and dumb stuff like that. I'm definitely in the boat of "I can't believe they give people like this a microphone. It's so embarrassing and offensive." But I just wanted to chime in and say plenty of people are angry at the state of the world and write angry music for people to rally around for change. The obvious token example I'm thinking of is G.L.O.S.S. Love Them.
End of ramble.

Edited because my grammar is terrible on mobile

I was disgusted but not surprised. And, at this stage of the game, I'm not even surprised by his defenders and sympathizers.