The Occult Thread

[rfurtkamp]

Yea, hermetic.com is a good resource, even if I have to email regularly as for whatever reason 418 isn't working (and it's my most referenced thing on the site).

[Big Mon]

So, I've a question for some of you dudes, prob. Bassus or Furty, what's the difference in Theistic Satanists and Luciferians? Is it that in Theistic Satanism, Satan is revered, whereas in Luciferianism, the angel Lucifer is? That a distinction is made between the two as being separate entities?

[rfurtkamp]

There's no set "council of Nicea" moment in Satanism - you have to pretty much ask each person where they're at.

Luciferian types will often preface with some sort of descriptor - Blake (ie William Blake) etc. or give some additional information.

Literal "I bow down to the Goat Lord on the Sabbat" Satanists have been vanishingly rare in my travels, I think they're more common in Mexico or Europe from what I've heard from friends.

I'd assume that someone saying they're a theistic Satanist means they believe in at least some sort of Satan - distancing themselves from the Church of Satan's 70s evolution to "Satan is just an aleegory" (ironically around the same time that the Catholics did too!).

Personally I'm in the Thelema/wacko camp, and Satan is just another one of the angels. The relative degree of falling is something I don't worry about - if a part of God can't be restored to its place therein, then it's not a part of God in the first place.

But that goes straight into deep wankery fast.

[Big Mon]

deep wankery fast.

[rfurtkamp]

Worse, like harpsichord wankery.

[futuresailors]

Do I get to join the club?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aco2sUvKF0M[/youtube]

[rfurtkamp]

Only if you write Mary Sue Charmed fanfic.

[space6oy]

all i gots to say 'bout the occult:

[rustywire]

^
I see that and raise you
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xB5GBvOqEY[/youtube]

[Bassus Sanguinis]

So, I've a question for some of you dudes, prob. Bassus or Furty, what's the difference in Theistic Satanists and Luciferians? Is it that in Theistic Satanism, Satan is revered, whereas in Luciferianism, the angel Lucifer is? That a distinction is made between the two as being separate entities?

I've got the impression the terms are used pretty loose enough to warrant a question is there much difference between the approaches :id: but it might well be I'm missing a point in there. People in the groups tend to have different ideas about their mutual beliefs.

There's only a few authors that have attempted explicit theology and cosmology in the subject (Johannes Nefastos and the small group Jon Nödtveidt was a part of comes to my mind) and I haven't read the material all that good, but I get the impression the theistic satanists do use term luciferian in texts, and vice versa, the lucifefrians use the term satan, satanic, satanism in their texts. Also, both camps use the term gnostic, though I feel they use term with a bit different flavor than groups that read Gnostic Christian texts and incorporate that in their practice. Nothing new to Gnosticism in that one might add.

Some theistic satanist groups I know of include Azazelin Tähti (Finnish for The Star of Azazel), Turun Hengentieteellinen seura (Finnish for Turku Science of Spirituality Association, though this might be a case of weird internet humor), Joy of Satan, Wervolf Order, and Order of Nine Angles.
Some of this stuff makes me feel it's an attempt to build a ritual magic /initiatory group like the readily existing but with bad ass vocabulary and either black metal or nazi aesthetics and values. You are warned.

...and there's luciferian witchcraft, some sort of American Zos Kia Cultus inspired group that refers to Lucifer and uses a lot of "dark current" terminology. Or something. Don't ask me. Haven't read anything beyond the back covers of that stuff.

[culturejam]

Wow. I had not idea there were 32 Flavors of Satanism.

[space6oy]

Wow. I had not idea there were 32 Flavors of Satanism.

delicious!

[gunslinger_burrito]

There are a few, like The Order Of Nine Angels in specific, that are pretty extreme. As in, "neo-nazi, on terrorist watch-list" kind of extreme. The ONA has some interesting ideas as far as personal development is concered (like surviving by yourselfbin the woods for a month) but they also condone and encourage human sacrifice. . . So there's that

[gunslinger_burrito]

Okay, I have a question for you guys who know your way around this stuff. How important do you find it to correct people when they misuse symbols, and why? Examples are things like Petrine Crosses..... I'm struggling with a blurry line here in my own head, and need some opinions.

[rfurtkamp]

I don't have enough time in the day for that, and stick out of people's way if they're not in mine.

Only time it would be relevant for me is if it's an organization I'm affiliated with (and there are very few), etc.

Also so many symbols have been re-appropriated or have multiple interpretations that it's a case of "ask first" before assuming even then.

TL;DR does it affect me? If not, move on.