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D.o.S. wrote:Don't put that info on facebook, don't talk about money (at all ever, except in mostly-obscured crumpled handfuls away from prying eyes), don't bother trying to legitimize it through the tax code, and don't promote it as a venue--promote it as a party. Especially on facebook. If you have to use facebook.

This seems to be the issue. Apparently the city dropped off a letter accusing him of online ticket sales, advance tickets, charging admission, issuing drink tickets etc. Blatantly not true stuff. Well, except for the drink ticket, he was giving a free drink to folks who paid the suggested donation before the first band went on as incentive for people to come out early enough to see all the bands. That practice will stop.
The "suggested" donation is just that, suggested. Broke or stingy folks were all allowed in. He has a volunteer at the door to check I.D. and remind people not to hang around outside or in the back alley, and I think probably runs the sound himself. It's NOT loud outside, so there are no noise complaints.
Ben Verellen's band played there a few weeks ago and if that doesn't incite a noise complaint I don't know what would.

So there's a hearing on Friday and he's asking people to come to prove that they are not charging admission, and all the rest. It's sounding more and more like this is just the city thinking they are being cheated out of their cut.

the_carl wrote:Alright, since no one else seems to think it's an issue of common courtesy, what about the safety issue? Places where there are regularly large gatherings of people need to be inspected for compliance with fire codes and that sort of shit. What happens if you have a Station Nightclub kind of incident, except oh wait, it's in some random guy's basement so there's only one stairway out and no fire exits. Zoning laws exist for reasons other than pissing you off.

quit being such a lame jerk-ey loser dick

house shows rock and this story sucks

seems like if the issue isn't noise complaints, then it's about the money. don't publicly advertise the show cost. at most say things like "bring money for bands" or "suggested donation". it may be donation anyway, but if online fliers and promotion seem to suggest that there is actually a price, that's where you get in trouble.

also, adopting a defiant "stick it to the man" attitude as the public approach may be more than justified and all, but that will rarely get you much. he may have already kind of shot himself in the foot with that one. feigning humility and remorse and a "yes sir, no sir" persona will often get you a lot further, even if it hurts your pride. it can allow you to get out of the immediate stink and then find a way to do what you want and be left alone. this is what i've learned now that i'm old, even though it sucks.

We use to have a place called the Church of Crystal Light...I don't think they got busted for shows.

the_carl wrote:Alright, since no one else seems to think it's an issue of common courtesy, what about the safety issue? Places where there are regularly large gatherings of people need to be inspected for compliance with fire codes and that sort of shit. What happens if you have a Station Nightclub kind of incident, except oh wait, it's in some random guy's basement so there's only one stairway out and no fire exits. Zoning laws exist for reasons other than pissing you off.

Since you've been there and know the layout can you please make a list of some of the things you saw that might contribute to a potential Station type incident?

D-Day wrote:

the_carl wrote:Alright, since no one else seems to think it's an issue of common courtesy, what about the safety issue? Places where there are regularly large gatherings of people need to be inspected for compliance with fire codes and that sort of shit. What happens if you have a Station Nightclub kind of incident, except oh wait, it's in some random guy's basement so there's only one stairway out and no fire exits. Zoning laws exist for reasons other than pissing you off.

Since you've been there and know the layout can you please make a list of some of the things you saw that might contribute to a potential Station type incident?

I haven't been there and I don't need to have been. It doesn't matter what this particular guy's setup is like. It's a matter of principle; if you don't regulate and inspect all venues then you're inviting the creation of bad venues. It's not fair to the legitimate venues to run unregulated venues. A house show once in a while is fine; having house shows so often that you have a dedicated facebook page for it is borderline running a business, and if you're going to be a business you have to play by the same rules as everyone else. This guy's belief that he has the right to run a music venue out of his basement is illogical and immature, something only highlighted by the whole "I'll start my own church because fuck the man" argument.

I'll go back to my rocking chair and let you young whippersnappers carry on now. Peace.

the_carl wrote:I haven't been there and I don't need to have been. It doesn't matter what this particular guy's setup is like. It's a matter of principle; if you don't regulate and inspect all venues then you're inviting the creation of bad venues. It's not fair to the legitimate venues to run unregulated venues. A house show once in a while is fine; having house shows so often that you have a dedicated facebook page for it is borderline running a business, and if you're going to be a business you have to play by the same rules as everyone else. This guy's belief that he has the right to run a music venue out of his basement is illogical and immature, something only highlighted by the whole "I'll start my own church because fuck the man" argument.

I'll go back to my rocking chair and let you young whippersnappers carry on now. Peace.

I totally respect your opinion, the_carl, but your argument here is not strong. Especially the part about "inviting the creation of bad venues". Whether a venue is good or bad has nothing to do with if it's been "regulated and inspected". It's not a matter of principle, it's a matter of control and a matter of aesthetic/ideological conception. I think you're taking a very narrow view of what a "legitimate" venue is. A house show is not a business, especially if the house takes no money.

Awww I feel all young now
They are taking all that very seriously. They just had an all volunteer remodeling of the house to add sound deadening material, clean it up and make it a safer place. Was a very cool thing to see happen. I didn't help cause I'm a bit disabled. This isn't a bunch of kids putting this all together. I'd say most of the people involved are in the 30-40 range, give or take a decade.
Perhaps this will be the catalyst to start a new venue. It just seems like it's prohibitively difficult in this day and age of over regulation and taxation.

Also the Station argument is kinda silly as I think any band starting to haul in crates of pyro would get a swift kick in the ass on their way out.

wow
punk rock is really dead huh
sucks
basement shows are the shit
its part of growin up
at least it was
bummer

we have a really rad house venue in Deeton. I've never seen cops there. I'm not sure the trick is. I know Donny is good buds with all the people there.
they host free shows in their garage and have an organized facebook for it

AxAxSxS wrote:

D.o.S. wrote:Don't put that info on facebook, don't talk about money (at all ever, except in mostly-obscured crumpled handfuls away from prying eyes), don't bother trying to legitimize it through the tax code, and don't promote it as a venue--promote it as a party. Especially on facebook. If you have to use facebook.

This seems to be the issue. Apparently the city dropped off a letter accusing him of online ticket sales, advance tickets, charging admission, issuing drink tickets etc. Blatantly not true stuff. Well, except for the drink ticket, he was giving a free drink to folks who paid the suggested donation before the first band went on as incentive for people to come out early enough to see all the bands. That practice will stop.
The "suggested" donation is just that, suggested. Broke or stingy folks were all allowed in. He has a volunteer at the door to check I.D. and remind people not to hang around outside or in the back alley, and I think probably runs the sound himself. It's NOT loud outside, so there are no noise complaints.
Ben Verellen's band played there a few weeks ago and if that doesn't incite a noise complaint I don't know what would.

So there's a hearing on Friday and he's asking people to come to prove that they are not charging admission, and all the rest. It's sounding more and more like this is just the city thinking they are being cheated out of their cut.

If you've got the time, try searching out some free legal advice from your local people-who-deal-with-laws-and-the-law. I realize this is on Friday, which doesn't leave a lot of turnaround time, but you should be able to find someone that'll give you pro bono answers/advice about "what's the likelihood of some bad shit happening to us?" And, if they're feeling really generous, maybe an idea of how it might be possible to salvage it.

we have a house show venue in downtown toronto that's above a bike shop or some shit like that

I have no idea how that place has never been shut down it gets pretty loud in between sets when we're all drunk up on the rooftop patio

in the far back corner of the rooftop patio there's a designated pee spot because the line for the washroom gets pretty redic

pee here sign and everything

it's a magical place really

Had one of my best nights of sex ever at a basement show once. Girl was horny, I was loaded drunk, back room had a shower. Kept thinking for the first five minutes that someone will come in and it'll all be ruined, but we kept going, all fueled by alcohol and crazy loud ass shitty emo core band that I only went to because the other party I was at was boring and my friend suggested his friends band.

No idea if that band is still together (can't remember their name anyways), but I will always remember that night. And the shower.

Joe Gress wrote:Had one of my best nights of sex ever at a basement show once. Girl was horny, I was loaded drunk, back room had a shower. Kept thinking for the first five minutes that someone will come in and it'll all be ruined, but we kept going, all fueled by alcohol and crazy loud ass shitty emo core band that I only went to because the other party I was at was boring and my friend suggested his friends band.

No idea if that band is still together (can't remember their name anyways), but I will always remember that night. And the shower.

wowzers, dude...

Good advice and great stories

So I'm not sure whats going on with the hearing. First it was come support us, now it sounds like only 3 people will be allowed in. Kinda messed up. Saturday they are doing a "neighborhood apreciation day" To clean up the neighborhood and try to be nice i guess. So a couple of us from my band are going to chip in on that.